- Therion - speleo.sk

Fixed station symbols
by zillig＠hoki.ibp.fhg.de 04 Oct '04

04 Oct '04

Hi, I´m new to therion and cannot solve this problem: when I try to mark station points as fixed (mark fixed) no special symbols are shown in the map or in legend (still there is the symbol for "temporary station"). Can anyone mail me an example file how it should work? Thanks Wolfgang Zillig

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Re: Models.
by Wookey 04 Oct '04

04 Oct '04

+++ Stacho Mudrak [04-10-01 08:50 +0200]: >> Wookey wrote: > >>> >OK - thanx - just one thing - what do I view a .thm file with? I don't >>> >recognise the data in it. > >> >> XTherion model viewer (F4). I don't know whether you are running it on >> Linux, but on Win32 it works from standard installation. Ah- My build of therion is missing that menu item, which would explain why I was confused. Looks like the Debian build of therion does not have this facility, no doubt due to missing libraries etc. I hadn't realised the model viewer was internal to xtherion. I'll fix that soon. The Therion demo went reasonably well, although it's fair to say that at the moment Tunnel is easier to use. The comparison was very useful to people I think. I had a lot of trouble with therion 'path not connected' type messages when trying to create the demo. We need to work out some much more reliable way of getting error information to users. Currently if you do something wrong with area paths or joins that don't work you effective get an error of 'something is wrong somewhere' which is hopeless if you have just drawn a big chunk of cave. Even when there is a simple error, the error gives the line number; whilst the xtherion viewer shows 'item number' next to each entry - there is no way to relate these. As the whole thing is integrated it could easily show you the offending line - or even put you there in one of the windows. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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thbook typo corrections
by Olly Betts 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

Just to prove I have actually read the manual... Cheers, Olly diff -ru therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch01.tex therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch01.tex --- therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch01.tex 2004-04-23 08:10:16.000000000 +0100 +++ therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch01.tex 2004-09-30 18:36:54.000000000 +0100 @@ -56,7 +56,7 @@ \subchapter Features. -Therion is a command-line application. It processess input files, which +Therion is a command-line application. It processes input files, which are---including 2D maps---in text format, and creates files with 2D maps or 3D model as the output. @@ -148,7 +148,7 @@ \subsubchapter Setting-up environment. -Therion reads settigs from the initialization file. Default settings should +Therion reads settings from the initialization file. Default settings should work fine for users using only ASCII (non-accented latin) characters, standard \TeX\ and \MP. @@ -182,7 +182,7 @@ * green---input files created by the user and output files created by Therion \endlist -Therion itself does the main task. It reads the input files, interpretes them, +Therion itself does the main task. It reads the input files, interprets them, finds closed loops and distributes errors. Next it transforms all other data (e.g.~2D maps) according to new stations position. Therion exports data for 2D maps in \MP\ format. \MP\ gives diff -ru therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch02.tex therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch02.tex --- therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch02.tex 2004-09-10 06:36:29.000000000 +0100 +++ therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch02.tex 2004-09-30 18:35:43.000000000 +0100 @@ -148,7 +148,7 @@ \description inserts the contents of a file in place of - the command. Default extension is `.th' and may be ommited. For greatest + the command. Default extension is `.th' and may be omitted. For greatest portability use relative paths and Unix slashes `|/|', not Windows backslashes `|\|', as directory separators. @@ -274,7 +274,7 @@ \options * |id <ext_keyword>| = id of the object - * |author <date> <person>| = author of the data and it's creation date + * |author <date> <person>| = author of the data and its creation date * |copyright <date> <string>| = copyright date and name * |title <string>| = description of the object \endoptions @@ -368,11 +368,11 @@ separately by \MP; scraps which are too large may exceed \MP's memory and cause errors. - Scrap consits of point, line and area map symbols. See chapter {\it How + Scrap consists of point, line and area map symbols. See chapter {\it How the map is put together} for explanation how and in which order are they displayed. - Scrap border consits of lines with the |-outline out| or |-outline in| + Scrap border consists of lines with the |-outline out| or |-outline in| options (passage walls have |-outline out| by default). These line shouldn't intersect---otherwise Therion (\MP) can't detemine the interior of the scrap and \MP\ issues a warning message ``|scrap outline intersects itself|''. @@ -462,7 +462,7 @@ * |3d <on/off/auto>| = specify if the scrap should be used in 3D model reconstruction - * |author <date> <person>| = author of the data and it's creation date + * |author <date> <person>| = author of the data and its creation date * |copyright <date> <string>| = copyright date and name * |title <string>| = description of the object \endoptions diff -ru therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch03.tex therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch03.tex --- therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch03.tex 2004-09-10 08:36:25.000000000 +0100 +++ therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch03.tex 2004-09-30 18:37:33.000000000 +0100 @@ -220,7 +220,7 @@ * |exclude-pages <on/off> <list>| = exclude specified pages from cave atlas. The list may contain page numbers separated by a comma or dash (for intervals) e.g.~|2,4-7,9,23| means, that pages 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 23 - should be omited. Only the map pages should be counted. (Set |own-pages 0| + should be omitted. Only the map pages should be counted. (Set |own-pages 0| and |title-pages off| to get the correct page numbers to be excluded.) Changes of |own-pages| or |title-pages| options don't affect page excluding. (A) diff -ru therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch04.tex therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch04.tex --- therion-0.3.3-orig/thbook/ch04.tex 2004-07-12 17:21:53.000000000 +0100 +++ therion-0.3.3/thbook/ch04.tex 2004-09-30 18:39:07.000000000 +0100 @@ -64,7 +64,7 @@ (select SURVEY_ID from CENTRELINE where TOPO_DATE between '1998-01-01' and '1998-12-31');| -{\it How long are pasages lying between 1500 and 1550 m a.s.l.?} +{\it How long are passages lying between 1500 and 1550 m a.s.l.?} |select sum(LENGTH) from SHOT, STATION S1, STATION S2 where (S1.Z+S2.Z)/2 between 1500 and 1550 and

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snow and ice
by Olly Betts 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

There doesn't seem to be a way to make an area "snow and ice" (the UIS symbol for either is stars). Does this entail writing some metapost? Has anyone already done it? Cheers, Olly

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Example models?
by Wookey 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

I'm giving a talk about Therion at the BCRA conference this weekend. Are there any examples of real 3D models and how to create them beyond the piccy on the website? Is this functionality actually in therion 0.3.3? Can it do colour in surveys yet? If so how? Is morphing restricted to within a scrap? e.g. say I have two parallel passages, the data for one changes so it morphs. If they are drawn on the same scrap then the walls of both passages will move. If they are on separate scrpas then only the one that changes moves - correct? i..e morphing is done on a 'distance from station, within a scrap' basis? Can someone explain what the numbers and arrows and things in the bottom of the atlas view are for? I've pressed a lot of buttons and the view changes but I have not managed to understand exactly what is going on in terms of levels, names, links and grid positions. (I am looking at the cvs cave_a.pdf example) I'm leaving in about 1hr so any quick answers ytou have would be good :-) Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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How to change settings for just a few readings?
by Olly Betts 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

I'm looking at how to convert from .svx format to .th format. Mostly working, except I can't see how to handle this cleanly (the situation modelled here is that the tape is too short, and for one leg is was measured from a different point - in the example this was distilled from because 2-3 was a plumb and we needed more tape to tie a crab on): *begin test *calibrate tape 1 1 2 10 0 0 *begin *calibrate tape 2 2 3 10 0 0 *end ; *calibrate 1 is now be back in effect 3 4 10 0 0 *end test The nearest I can get is: encoding iso8859-1 survey test -title "test" centreline calibrate tape 1 1 2 10 0 0 endcentreline centreline calibrate tape 2 2 3 10 0 0 endcentreline centreline 3 4 10 0 0 endcentreline endsurvey However this doesn't restore the "calibrate tape 1" of course (the survey length is 27m). I can't omit the survey name for a survey command, or pass an empty name. And I can't nest centreline commands. The only solution I can see is to track which settings are in effect and reset them all after the *end. That's just about OK for automated conversion if nobody's going to want to edit the result, but it must be a right headache for anyone who has tried to hand convert a dataset so I'm wondering if there's some way to express this situation. Cheers, Olly

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demo-rabbit doesn't process
by Olly Betts 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Using the therion 0.3.1 debian packages, I unpacked demo-rabbit from the tar.gz file, ran xtherion, File->Open thconfig from the demo-rabbit directory, and then File->Compile. This stops with an error - the full output cut and pasted from the lower frame is: therion 0.3.1 initialization file: /etc/therion.ini reading open file -- /etc/therion.ini close file -- /etc/therion.ini configuration file: thconfig reading open file -- thconfig close file -- thconfig reading input -- rabbit.th open file -- rabbit.th open file -- rabbit.th2 therion (therion.cxx:332): error -- (thdatareader.cxx:213): rabbit.th2 [708] -- (thline.cxx:370): invalid number -- horizontal Line 708 of rabbit.th2 says "adjust horizontal". If I remove this, I get an error for a later line which says "adjust vertical". Searching the manual for "adjust", "horizontal", or "vertical" doesn't turn up anything useful. Cheers, Olly

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Havranik
by Martin Sluka 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Tak je to presne tak, ako som si myslel :) M. --

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Therion 0.3.3 announce
by Martin Budaj 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Hello everybody, therion 0.3.3 is available. The most important changes are * support for surface map (2D) and surface grid (3D) * it's possible do display centreline in 2D map without drawing the scrap (it's enough to include survey in the map command) See the file CHANGES for details. The web page contains screenshots illustrating new features. Best wishes, Martin

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Re: Left-right-up data
by Stacho Mudrak 10 Aug '04

10 Aug '04

> I am new to Therion, and I am very impressed with what you guys have > done. This is the most complete cave surveying software I have seen so > far. Thanks for the compliment and feedback :) > What is the purpose of the "left right up" items in data? (These are not > included in the Survex manual.) When I enter numbers into these fields, > nothing happens. Well, you are right :( . In the current version, these numbers are not used anywhere. In fact, we have added them after Wookey's requests and we want to implement them into 3D modelling in the future. The problem is, that everybody interprets these numbers in a different way or better to say in a different direction. Somebody uses LR dimensions ortogonal to the previous shot, sombody in the axis of previous and next shot. The same with UD data - sometimes it is vertical, sometimes ortogonal to the shot (steep and vertical passages). So we need to add also some flags, that will identify which cross-section orientation should be used for particular station. But these flags are nowhere standardised, so we have to introduce our own and this may take some time. In fact, we have a holiday season right now, so therion developement is very problematic, but after holidays, we will definitely continue with 3D modelling and LRUD data will be also included into 3D model (you are not the only one who is asking for that). > If these are for specifying LRUD distances to the walls, ceiling and > floor, then how can I see the corresponding distances in the Map Editor? > This would be very useful for drawing the walls. Do you draw maps in xtherion without bacground images??? We thought, that everybody will use some hand-drawn scatches as a background, where passages are drawn and xtherion is only some kind of vectorization program. Well, if it is not true - I can imagine, that it is really very hard to draw something reasonable. In the current approach, I'm afraid it is not possible to add something like that (may be in the therion with new user interface, it will be possible, but this is currently only our long-term dream :(). So if you would like to draw passages like that, I can see the only way how to do it. Use some other software (even we still use some of them :)), print centerline with LRUD dimensions. Scan this drawing and put as a background image into xtherion. OK, it is very dirty but it should work :) But now I have another idea - in the near future, we want to implement inserting only centerline to the map. Now I see, that it would be probably very good to insert also passage dimensions, if they will be specified. This should enable drawing not vectorized parts of the existing caves where LRUD data exists. > Are these data fields used in the 3D model? Not now :( OK, tomorrow I'm leaving for the holiday, but I believe, we will do some progress in September. Best regards, S. > Thanks for your help! > > Ilker >

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