July 2008 - Therion

conversion vtopo/therion : .tro ->.th
by Martin Gerbaux 19 Aug '08

19 Aug '08

Dear all This is my first message on the list. To introduce me, I mainly practice caving in the French Alps, around Grenoble. I discovered therion 1.5 years ago and really enjoy this soft. I apologize because I think this question is often submitted, but I did not find the answer on the archive of the list, neither on the wiki : I would like to make a synthesis on a medium cave (about 5km and 800 stations), and most of the former surveys have been done with Vtopo (a single 830 lines file .tro). Since Vtopo and therion syntaxes are quite similar for topographic survey, does anybody get a script to convert vtopo files (.tro) to therion file (.th) ? (I work under linux). Martin

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Atlas Layouts
by Bruce Mutton 04 Aug '08

04 Aug '08

Attached is a small spreadsheet to help create Atlas page layouts. On entering 7 input variables, (paper size, margins, navigator etc) you can copy and paste the required 12 variables into your Therion layout in a single operation. Perfectly optimised page layouts with no nasty arithmetic! Thanks for your recent posts Martin. I'll try out the tex spaghetti and report back. Bruce

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Atlas Page Setup Layouts
by Bruce Mutton 31 Jul '08

31 Jul '08

Further to my post a couple of days ago. I have found the problem with atlas page layouts. All of the parameters have to be explicitly specified, the redundant parameters are not calculated by Therion as is stated in the Therion book. This can be a bit tricky as most errors result in crash or an odd looking pdf. To help the process I've made myself a spreadsheet to calculate all of the parameters with different paper sizes and navigation pane parameters. I'll post it when finished if anyone is interested. Attached are a couple of layout config files that seem to work for me. (Actually the A2 is an A3, but you get the idea) Any feedback appreciated. I've been trying to get the tex code at the end of these files to give me north arrows in my atlas, to no avail. I'm a tex invalid I'm afraid. Looks too complicated for me. Bruce

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Anyone made any Atlas page-setup Layouts?
by Bruce Mutton 31 Jul '08

31 Jul '08

Hi All Has anyone created a set of atlas layouts for standard paper sizes? Ie portrait & landscape for A4, A3, A2, A1 etc? I thought this should be quite straight forward until I tried to duplicate the default behaviour; ie A4 portrait. The Therion book explanation is reasonably straight forward and I have checked the old forum posts which suggest there may have been some problems a year or so ago. Varying the parameters makes changes to the output produced, but not at all what I expect. It is as though there is a bug in the code whereby the size <width> <height> is fixed at the default values and not calculated automatically. I am using version 0.5.2 from therion-update-20080416.exe My printers printable margins are about 6 to 7mm from the paper edge, so I can not print out a complete default A4 atlas page to scale without clipping. I have not been specifying the size <width> and <height> because the Therion book says it is calculated automatically if not given, and also if the nav pane is on, there is not enough information to allow the user to calculate the height manually. Ie the height of the nav pane is not available to the user. Assistance anyone? Took me some time to get my pages to be labelled from A1. I have figured it out in part, and if I am correct suggest a change to the Therion book definition, (at least for atlas) as follows; origin-label <x-label> <y-label> . set label for atlas page which has the upper left corner at the given origin coordinates. An 'A' for A, B, C sequence. A 'number' for numeric sequence. (number sequence will start at 'number' minus 1) (M, A; default: 0 0) It would be nice for the nav pane to include these as labels along the edge, or at least have the page numbers inserted within the squares, otherwise the nav pane is not as useful as it could be once it is printed on paper. and you are wandering through the cave shuffling pages. Transcription of my layout as follows. #FILENAME: LayoutAtlasPortrait4.thc #================================== #Standard Component File created Bruce Mutton 27 July 2008 layout LayoutAtlasPortraitA4 #------------------------------ #GENERAL PDF SETTINGS #-------------------- #own-pages 0 #number to add to actual page number btm left in brackets page-numbers on #on title-pages off #on #exclude-pages #this is dependant on particular output, include elsewhere #NAV PANE #-------- nav-factor 30 #default = 30: bigger = smaller nav pane size nav-size 2 2 origin-label 2 A #label type <across> <down> 2 A gives A1, 1 A gives A0, 0 A gives A-1 #origin ?? clashes with co-ord system so not related to origin-labels? #PAGE LAYOUT #----------- #page-setup 21 29.7 \ paper width height # 20 28.7 \ page width height (inside margins) # 0.5 0.5 cm margins & units page-setup 21 29.7 \ 20 28.7 \ 1.5 1.5 cm #size overlap 0.5 cm #1 cm duplicated drawing overlap around drawing pane endlayout LayoutAtlasPortraitA4 #!END Regards Bruce

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North True Grid Magnetic Astronomical?
by Bruce Mutton 30 Jul '08

30 Jul '08

The Therion book states .The declination is positive when the magnetic north is east of true north. and north <true/grid> . specify default orientation of the map. By default, true (astronomical) north is used. It is ignored when used with local coordinate system. I'm confused. Presumably almost all cave surveys start out aligned to magnetic north because most of us use compasses that adopt the local magnetic north as their datum. Then, often, we either align the survey to true (astronomical) north manually by specifying a declination, Or align the survey to grid north by specifying a co-ordinate system (that calculates declination automatically) The grid north is usually not the same as the true (astronomical) north, but for the purposes of cave maps and Therion I would assume it is usually considered to be so. (Not strictly correct, but I imagine the error would not be detectable on any printed cave map in most co-ordinate systems) So what is intended by Therion? Presumably some distinction between magnetic and grid north? I have experimented and found that 'north grid' 'north true' appear to produce identical outputs regardless of whether a 'co-ordinate system' or a 'declination' or a 'rotation' is specified. Is there a mistake or am I not understanding something? Regards Bruce

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Next Therion Release?
by Jonny Prouty 20 Jul '08

20 Jul '08

Hello, Is there a target date for when the next stable version of Therion is to be released? Thanks. -Jonny ^v^

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Anketa o pouzivani digitalnich pomucek pri mapovani
by Martin Sluka 19 Jul '08

19 Jul '08

Pokud mate cas, vyplnte. prosim, anketu na nasledujici adrese: http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=yl5xhmekxnowc52464237 Diky Martin Sluka

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[CaveDiggers] Questionnaire: Use of Digital Survey Tools in Cave Surveying
by Aaron Bird 18 Jul '08

18 Jul '08

Hi All, This is a questionnaire on use of digital survey tools in cave surveying: http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=yl5xhmekxnowc52464237 Based on the efforts of many cavers over the past few decades, digital survey tools have seen increasing use for underground surveying. A number of cavers have been working in this area for some time. For example, in the 1980s Frank Reid evaluated the use of a LIDAR device for positioning caves and in 1986 John Ganter wrote on use of a "Petro-Sonde" for finding passages in a Texas cave from the surface. Through the 1990s, cave-mapping software became more and more sophisticated: see work by David Mckenzie, Luc Le Blanc, Stacho Mudrak, Martin Budaj, Gary Petrie, Larry Fish, and many more.Radio-location techniques were practiced and perfected by Frank Reid, Brian Pease, and others. Impressive 3D laser-mapping tools were used by expeditions to generate multiple and realistic cross-sections of Florida sinkholes. Many, including Mark Passerby, have worked extensively on the process of using advanced/digital survey tools and have recommended procedures for effectively doing so. Others, like Phil Underwood (Shetland Attack Pony), have developed cave-specific surveying tools. Recently, Aaron Addison and Lynn Brucker have evaluated and used the Impulse and Attack Pony digital survey devices and written about their experiences. There are many others who have used high-tech tools for underground cave surveying. However, through all this use of high-tech equipment, most surveyors have continued to rely on the tried and true Suunto compass/clinometer and a fiberglass survey tape. Some feel that this may change someday, and we're wondering if it isn't already happening. So, we're trying to determine how prevalent the use of digital survey instruments is in current cave surveying. If you could, please take a couple of minutes to fill out this short questionnaire on digital survey tools. The results of this questionnaire will be shared in a comprehensive presentation on digital survey tools at the 2008 NSS Convention in Lake City, Florida, USA in August 2008 and in a paper to be distributed after the NSS convention. We hope you will take just a minute to fill out the questionnaire and share your experience and feedback on cave surveying. http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=yl5xhmekxnowc52464237 Finally, we're not subscribed to all of the caving-related email groups so please forward the URL as you are able. thanks! Aaron Bird Rachel Bosch David Riggs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cavediggers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cavediggers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:cavediggers-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:cavediggers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: cavediggers-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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therion list test
by Ladislav Blažek 09 Jul '08

09 Jul '08

Mailman test

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Therion + Subversion
by Jonny Prouty 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

Hello All, I have recently begun experimenting with using Subversion to manage my Therion data. I'm curious whether anyone else has done this and if you have any specific advice? So far it works great, but I haven't really put it through its paces. -Jonny ^v^

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