December 2021 - Therion

Re: [Therion] Point altitude/deph, Help !
by Xavier Robert 28 Jun '22

28 Jun '22

Hi all, I think I have found a trick. The other Xavier led me to the right tracks, thanks a lot ! Finally, this is quite simple with the point altitude, and no need to change anything inside the : - If we use the point altitude only with the option -align, we get the altitude - If we use the point altitude with the options -align and -value [-1004 m] where 1004 is the altitude of the main entrance, we print the depth only for that point (Do not forget the " - " before the altitude of the main entrance), and thus, we do not erase the classic point altitude. The only (small) limits are : * If the main entrance changes, we need to manually update ALL the points that print the depth. But that should not be be everyday, and not a big issue to do that. * the symbology of the two points is the same. I will have a look for a way to modify that and let you know if I find a trick (If I copy the code of the point Altitude, and call it p_u_depth(expr pos, R, S, A), it crashes...). Cheers, Xav

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How to calculate the volume of a cave
by Bill Gee 31 Jan '22

31 Jan '22

Hello everyone - What tools can be used to calculate the volume of a cave based on center line and LRUD data? I found an email from Martin Sluka from about 4 years ago describing how to use Loch to export a .lox file in other formats, then run that file through CloudCompare or ParaView. The process looks very complex to me, and besides - Loch does not run on my computers, so there is no way for me to generate an export. As far as I can tell, Survex does not have a way to calculate volume. Could it be done with a KML file and Google Earth? -- Bill Gee

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Handling of tape and backtape in survey data
by Bill Gee 30 Dec '21

30 Dec '21

Hello everyone - I have a holiday question for the group. We have for years done our survey shots both directions, obtaining a forward and backward reading for both compass and inclinometer. The two readings are averaged by Survex and Therion in an effort to reduce errors. The tape reading, however, has only been a single number. Now that the use of DistoX2 devices is becoming common, it is easy to get a distance measurement both forward and backward. I have been ignoring the backward distance reading in the field. It does not get into my notes. I might need to change that practice. I looked at the Survex manual yesterday and see that it supports both TAPE and BACKTAPE (also called LENGTH and BACKLENGTH) in the survey data. That brings up two questions: 1) Does Therion also recognize the BACKTAPE data type? 2) What does Survex do if both TAPE and BACKTAPE are given? Does it average the two readings? Does Therion do the same thing? I understand that Therion will use Survex to reduce the centerline data - if Survex is installed. In case Survex is NOT installed, then Therion reduces the centerline itself. As a result they might handle this situation differently. As I write this, another related question occurred to me. When either Therion or Survex averages a forward and backward reading, how many significant digits does it carry in the calculation? Can the significant digits be changed? And the same question applies to loop closure calculations. How many significant digits are carried through the calculations? Thanks! ======== Bill Gee

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Migovec Github survey data project
by Bruce Mutton 21 Dec '21

21 Dec '21

Not directly a Therion question. I've been loosely following the progress of https://github.com/iccaving/migovec-survey-data a couple of years, but only recently started migrating some projects of my own to git. So thought I'd dispense with just admiring the outputs and fork the migovec repository to do a deep dive learn from the apparent masters. The REDME.md is exemplary, but the section on 'How to contribute' seems to be missing a most important thing - how do contributors interact with other contributors and the repository? The lack of issues and forks that similar sized GitHub projects have suggests I'm missing something obvious. I know Therion pretty well, passible on version control but only just cutting my teeth on git and GitHub. I found a simple problem in some thconfigs that causes Therion to crash and exit, and located the cause in the history. I could potentially fix it, make a pull request, but as I have only studied the migovec structure for literally 10 minutes, any 'fix' I work on will take me a while and be bound to be error prone. Better for me just to point out the problem. Anyone here know how the iccaving migovec Therion team communicates or would one of them on this list be able to PM me? Bruce

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Map offset: just specify offset in complex dataset (proposes new "offset" thconfig compiler command)
by Benedikt Hallinger 18 Dec '21

18 Dec '21

Hello, I currently experiment with creating a nice overview map of a fairly complex part of the Hirlatz cave. The dataset spans about 8km in passage lengths in variuous levels with lots of over-/underlaying passages. The data is organised in surveys, where each survey defines at least a "Hauptmap" wich usually includes all the submaps the main map is composed of. The main intend of the "Hauptmap" is to nicely render the survey alone. Now I want to create an overview map and using the select statement I can easily instruct therion to suck in and render all the maps of the entire region. Offsets are stripped this way, but therion does a very nice job in sorting te maps according to the altitude, which eases my brain very much, since i don't need to wrap my head around sorting 54 maps by hand. Therion does a splendid job with this already. However this produces one problem for me: I cannot render map offsets easily anymore. So what I had to do is to select the entire region using "select Wandaugenlabyrinth.Hirlatzhoehle" and render that. This will print the processes maps into the therion.log file. From there I have picket it up to create a new "map" structure (`grep ^M therion.og |sort -r | awk '{print $3}'`). This i added to the thconfig file and selected that instead. There it is now easy to define offets again. BUT: This introduces another, long term problem: When sometimes in the future someone adds a new survey to this region, he needs to remember to merge its maps also into the overview map definition (at the correct position because of altitude!). Thus, it would be cool if we had some kind of "offset" thconfig command alongside the select one. This would allow me to read in the entire regions maps, and just specify offsets for the offset ones; something like this: ----- thconfig ----- source ../../therion/Hirlatzhoehle.th select Wandaugenlabyrinth.Hirlatzhoehle # read in all defined maps of the Region offset 173-Anschluss-177(a)173.Wandaugenlabyrinth.Hirlatzhoehle [20 15 m] below offset 177-Hauptplan(a)177.Wandaugenlabyrinth.Hirlatzhoehle [-30 -20 m] above -------------------- Expected result would be all the maps read and printed at their altitude level, but the two maps offset as already known from the "map" command. If someone adds, lets say, 200-Hauptplan(a)200.Wandaugenlabyrinth.Hirlatzhoehle and recompiles the file, the new survey would be included *without specifying it explicitely*. Is such a command possible? I know it's not such a big deal with smaller caves, but in my dataset this would save a tremendous ammount of time down the road when I will make the atlas of Hirlatz regions (not to mention a big overview map). ps. and probably relatet: When I give "select Wandaugenlabyrinth.Hirlatzhoehle" and then "unselect 177-Hauptplan(a)177.Wandaugenlabyrinth.Hirlatzhoehle", 177 survey is still printed to the map. I would had expected that the scraps of the map would be hidden from output. Kind regards, Beni

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A little French in XTherion English language text editor
by Bruce Mutton 18 Dec '21

18 Dec '21

First time I have manually entered survey data into XTherion for years. A mysterious French prompt has appeared - I think it is a toggle forcing XTherion to ask for station names. Except that ticked or unticked there seems to be no difference in behaviour . Is there meant to be a tick box? What should it do? And perhaps an English translation in the next release? Cheers Bruce

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Therion chat space (matrix)
by Wookey 14 Dec '21

14 Dec '21

There has been a (barely used) therion IRC channel for a decade or so. Now there is a Therion matrix space too, which we propose to use for 'new UI' development chat, but can of course be used for any chat not really suited to the mailing list. #therion:matrix.org With two rooms: General and UIdevelopment - we could add more if need be There are lots of ways/apps to talk to matrix this is an easy web-based place to get started: https://matrix.to/#/#therion:matrix.org You will need a matrix account somewhere - either your own/local, or a default one on matrix.org I use 'revolt' on my laptop and 'element' on my phone or inside a browser. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/

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Presenting Mapiah, a multi-platform, more friendly, modern and performant graphical interface for Therion
by rsev＠protonmail.com 14 Dec '21

14 Dec '21

Presenting Mapiah. Mapiah is my take on a multi-platform, more friendly, modern and performant graphical interface for Therion. It's written in C++/Qt. It aims to be as compatible as practical and possible with XTherion. This is the "proof-of-concept" release. It's source code and it's releases files can be found at the projects home at SourceForge: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mapiah/ Please let me know what you think about it, if it has any future, if you want to help. *The name* Mapiah is a international friendly version of the portuguese word "mapear" on the sentence "vamos mapear?" - "let's go surveying?" or "let's go mapping?" - which is usually pronounced [vʌmu mapi'a]. *Multi-platform* Right now we have both Linux and Windows releases as these are the OSs I have access and minimal experience with. Until some Mac user steps up, that's the way it's gonna be. Having said that, the idea is to follow best practices during Mapiah's development to ease the release process on all target platforms: Linux, Windows and Mac. *The C++/Qt choices* Going backwards, the Qt framework was chosen as it has an open source compatible version. It's mature, powerful and seems to take multi-platform support seriously. The first idea was to use Qt Python as the "friendly" requirement could also be applied to the language chosen but in the end I decided to go with C++ because I believe that a C++ application might be more easily distributable across all platforms. *The "proof-of-concept" release* The basic reading and writing functionality supposely is th concept being proved in this release. Supposely because the actual concept I am trying to prove myself with this release is that I can write functional and decent C++/Qt code which, for the time being, is kinda proved. *Functionality* This 0.0.1 release can read a TH2 file, present it on the screen and save it. With an open file you can change the zoom level and write the file again. You should be able to see your TH2 file on screen correctly and the saved file should be functionally identical to the original one. All point, line, area, scrap and XTHERION options should be properly read and saved even if most aren't actually understood/acted upon. *License* This software is licensed under GPL 3 or later. *WARNINGS* PLEASE TEST! DON'T OVERRIDE YOUR ORIGINAL FILE WITH THE ONE WRITTEN BY MAPIAH!! THIS IS A PRE-ALPHA VERSION!!! Regards, Rodrigo Severo

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new Therion 6.0.4
by Therion 05 Dec '21

05 Dec '21

Hi, there is a new release 6.0.4 of Therion. Check https://github.com/therion/therion/releases/tag/v6.0.4 for more details. Best regards, Therion team

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new Therion 6.0.3
by Therion 05 Dec '21

05 Dec '21

Hi, there is a new release 6.0.3 of Therion. Check https://github.com/therion/therion/releases/tag/v6.0.3 for more details. Best regards, Therion team

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