September 2021 - Therion

Re: [Therion] Point altitude/deph, Help !
by Xavier Robert 28 Jun '22

28 Jun '22

Hi all, I think I have found a trick. The other Xavier led me to the right tracks, thanks a lot ! Finally, this is quite simple with the point altitude, and no need to change anything inside the : - If we use the point altitude only with the option -align, we get the altitude - If we use the point altitude with the options -align and -value [-1004 m] where 1004 is the altitude of the main entrance, we print the depth only for that point (Do not forget the " - " before the altitude of the main entrance), and thus, we do not erase the classic point altitude. The only (small) limits are : * If the main entrance changes, we need to manually update ALL the points that print the depth. But that should not be be everyday, and not a big issue to do that. * the symbology of the two points is the same. I will have a look for a way to modify that and let you know if I find a trick (If I copy the code of the point Altitude, and call it p_u_depth(expr pos, R, S, A), it crashes...). Cheers, Xav

4 4

How to calculate the volume of a cave
by Bill Gee 31 Jan '22

31 Jan '22

Hello everyone - What tools can be used to calculate the volume of a cave based on center line and LRUD data? I found an email from Martin Sluka from about 4 years ago describing how to use Loch to export a .lox file in other formats, then run that file through CloudCompare or ParaView. The process looks very complex to me, and besides - Loch does not run on my computers, so there is no way for me to generate an export. As far as I can tell, Survex does not have a way to calculate volume. Could it be done with a KML file and Google Earth? -- Bill Gee

8 11

Minimum symbol scale
by Tarquin Wilton-Jones 28 Oct '21

28 Oct '21

Hi folks, There is a setting: min-symbol-scale M That allows you to hide all symbols of S or XS scale. That's useful when you want to show only the most important symbols in a low resolution survey. But is there a way to control this differently only for certain symbols? Eg. I want to be able to hide all "point label" symbols of scale M-XS but I don't want all my cave walls or breakdown choke symbols to disappear (which are at the default M scale). Essentially I want something like this: min-symbol-scale point label L min-symbol-scale point anchor:foo M Some of this I can of course do with MetaPost. But labels (the thing I care most about) don't allow you to easily redefine the MetaPost macro ... or at least the syntax is so weird that I don't understand it. Thanks for any advice. Tarquin

2 4

Compile error do to "calibrate" command
by Torsten Schnitter 04 Oct '21

04 Oct '21

Hello List As mentioned in my post before, sometimes I need to do a resurvey. As the cave is an underwater cave and therefore the waterlevel can change I need to "correct" the depth readings. E.g.: The initial survey was done and the water depth at the start station was -5m at this time. The resurvey was done at a different time and the water level at the same start station was -9m. (to use positive numbers inside the data I use: "calibrate depth 0 -1") initial survey: centerline data diving from to length compass backcompass fromdepth todepth left right up down calibrate depth 0 -1 10 11 2.04 160 - 5.2 3.9 [ - -] [ - -] [ - -] [ - -] ... endcenterline resurvey: centerline data diving from to length compass backcompass fromdepth todepth left right up down calibrate depth 4 -1 0 1 3.09 284 - 9.2 11.4 [ 0.2 2.6] [ 0.2 0.9] [ - -] [ 2.2 0.2] 1 2 2.92 298 - 11.4 12.5 [ 2.6 1.8] [ 0.9 1.3] [ - 1.1] [ 0.2 1.1] 2 3 1.96 259 - 12.5 13.7 [ 1.8 1.2] [ 1.3 1.2] [ 1.1 1.2] [ 1.1 0.0] ... endcenterline Station 10 from the initial survey is identical to station 0 from resurvey and I do connect these using equate command. Due to the different waterlevel there is a difference of 4.0m in depth readings. To correct this I used "calibrate depth 4 -1" within the resurvey data. My assumption for e.g. station 0 was: (9.2 - 4) * -1 = -5.2 (identical to station 10 from initial survey: (5.2 - 0) * -1 = -5.2) (as discribed in the therion book on page 19: measured value = (read value - zero error) * scale) But doing so I get an error from the compiler: therion 6.0.0 (2021-07-13) - using Proj 5.1.0, compiled against 5.1.0 initialization file: C:\Program Files (x86)\Therion/therion.ini reading ... done configuration file: thconfig-survey.thc reading ... done reading source files ... done preprocessing database ... done C:\Program Files (x86)\Therion\therion.exe: error -- test.th [64] -- length reading is less than change in depth writing xtherion file ... done Line 64 is station 2 from resurvey. Depth difference is 13,7-12,5=1,2 and Distance is 1,96 (1,96 > 1,2). I don't understand this error. When changing "calibrate depth 4 -1" to "calibrate depth 0 -1" in the resurvey there is no error compiling the data. But the depth readings are not correct then. What do I get wrong with calibrate command? Torsten

3 3

Metapost exit code in therion 6.0.1 and 6.0.2
by A Gott 04 Oct '21

04 Oct '21

HI Everyone, A friend messaged me while I was lucky enough to escape the UK and get to spain for some caving, which was great! I've got back and tonight I tried to look at the problem he was having outputting in Therion 6.0.1 I ran his survey in 5.5.3 with no issues whatsoever, I thought he could be getting a bug from 6.0.1 so i updated my software, and now i'm bugged in 6.0.2 with the metapost exit code on his survey. ####################### metapost log file ######################## This is MetaPost, version 2.00 (TeX Live 2020/W32TeX) (kpathsea version 6.3.2) 22 SEP 2021 21:44 **data.mp (c:/Program Files (x86)/Therion/texmf/mpost/mpost.mp (c:/Program Files (x86)/Therion/texmf/mpost/plain.mp Preloading the plain mem file, version 1.005) ) (./data.mp {randomseed:=42} [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [1] [Warning: scrap outline intersects itself in scrap loper-p(a)inglorious.CusseyMas ter] [2] [3] [4] [5] [Warning: scrap outline intersects itself in scrap indy-1p(a)Indy.CusseyMaster ] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [Warning: scrap outline intersects itself in scrap timewarp-3p(a)Timewarp.CusseyM aster] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [Warning: scrap outline intersects itself in scrap inglorious-1p(a)inglorious.Cus seyMaster] [28] [29] [30] [31] [Warning: scrap outline intersects itself in scrap mine1(a)inglorious.CusseyMaste r] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [Warning: scrap outline intersects itself in scrap shattered_dreams-2p@shattere d_dreams.CusseyMaster] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] (./mptextmp.mp) [61] ! Logarithm of -64.77 has been replaced by 0. log->begingroup(if(EXPR2)=0:0else:mlog((EXPR2))/ mlog(10)fi)endgroup <to be read again> ; s_altitudebar->...d:=(EXPR1)-(EXPR0);dlog:=log(d); if.dlog.mod1<0.301:dv:=2;e... l.10965 ...,(0.00000,0.75000,0.75000,0.00000))("") ; Since I don't take logs of non-positive numbers, I'm zeroing this one. Proceed, with fingers crossed. (./mptextmp.mp) (./mptextmp.mp) [62] ) Here is how much of MetaPost's memory you used: 18042 strings using 388328 characters 2412656 bytes of node memory 1681 symbolic tokens 11i,82n,19p,452b,5f stack positions out of 16i,98n,20p,487b,6f 76 output files written: data-patt.1 .. data.62 #################### end of metapost log file #################### C:\Program Files (x86)\Therion\therion.exe: error -- metapost exit code -- 2 writing xtherion file ... done I don't know whether its a bug or whether there is an error with the config file which only presents in 6.0.1/2 but I thought I would send it to the list for thoughts? Alastair. please find below config file which ran fine in 5.5.3 source CusseyMaster.th export model -fmt survex -o CusseyMaster.3d export map -proj [elevation 0] -layout localside -o CusseyElevation.pdf export map -proj plan -layout LayoutMapBorder -layout sidesurvey -layout localplan -layout-map-image 5 20 sw "./arrow.png" -layout-map-header 0 0 off -o CusseyMaster.pdf #export map -proj plan -layout LayoutMapBorder -layout sidesurvey -layout localplan -layout-map-image 17 20 sw "./arrow.png" -o CusseyMaster.pdf export map -proj plan -layout LayoutMapBorder -layout localplan -o CusseyPlan.pdf layout sidesurvey map-image 55 100 s CusseyElevation.pdf endlayout layout localside symbol-set BCRA symbol-hide group cave-centreline scale-bar 25 m map-header 98 97 n map-comment "Discovered and Explored by Eldon Pothole Club 2020 - 2021 Surveyed By: Luke Cafferty, Rob Eavis, Jon Pemberton, Jeff Wade Survey Drawn By: Rob Eavis Elevation, facing North Entrance: SK 21545 76524 Altitude: 244m " legend on grid bottom grid-coords border grid-size 10 10 10 m #grid-origin 0 0 0 m colour map-fg [80 89 94] #colour map-bg [20 39 14] code metapost def s_scalebar (expr l, units, txt) = begingroup interim warningcheck:=0; tmpl:=l / Scale * cm * units / 2; tmpx:=l / Scale * cm * units / 5; tmph:=5bp; % bar height endgroup; pickup PenC; draw (-tmpl,0)--(tmpl,0)--(tmpl,-tmph)--(-tmpl,-tmph)--cycle; p:=(0,0)--(tmpx,0)--(tmpx,-tmph)--(0,-tmph)--cycle; for i:=-2.5 step 2 until 2: fill p shifted (i * tmpx,0); endfor; begingroup interim labeloffset:=3.5bp; for i:=0 step (l/5) until (l-1): tmpx:=tmpl * (i * 2 / l - 1); label.top(thTEX(decimal (i)),(tmpx,0)); endfor; label.top(thTEX(decimal (l) & "\thinspace" & txt),(tmpl,0)); label.bot(thTEX("Scale = 1 : " & decimal round(Scale*100)),(0,-tmph)); endgroup; enddef; endcode code tex-map \legendcontent={% \hsize=\legendwidth \ifnortharrow\vbox to 0pt{\line{\hfil\northarrow}\vss}\fi \edef\tmp{\the\cavename} \ifx\tmp\empty \else {\size[40]\the\cavename} \vskip1cm \fi \ifscalebar\scalebar\vskip1cm\fi {\rightskip=0pt plus 3em\parskip=3bp \edef\tmp{\the\comment} \ifx\tmp\empty \else {\size[12]\the\comment} \par\medskip \fi } \formattedlegend } endlayout layout LayoutMapBorder code tex-map \framethickness=0.5mm endlayout ####### PLAN ####### layout localplan symbol-hide group cave-centreline #scale-bar 20 m #symbol-hide special scale-bar symbol-hide special north-arrow code tex-map \legendtitle={} \cavename={} \scalebarfalse \cavelengthtitle={} \cavelength={} \cavedepthtitle={} \cavedepth={} endcode map-header 5 20 sw map-comment "Plan View" colour map-fg depth #colour map-bg [20 39 14] endlayout

2 2

Exclude line parts in XVI export
by Torsten Schnitter 30 Sep '21

30 Sep '21

Hi List Is there an option to exclude some parts of a line in a XVI export? It also should be exluded from all calculations of course as it is dupclicated survey. I couldn't find something for this in the Therion book. E.g. with using flags for groups of data or anything else? I would like to prevent using comments for all obsolete data to do this job. I had to resurvey a part of a line (not complete line). Therefore I want to export let's say station 0 to 5 from line A, then station 0 to 10 from line B and eventually station 15-18 from line A. (station 0@lineB mailto:0@lineB = 5@lineA mailto:5@lineA and 10@lineB mailto:10@lineB = 15@lineA mailto:15@lineA ) Aim is to exclude a part from line A in the XVI export and not to be confused by obselete stations and shots. "Flags splay" is good for excluding the data from calculations. But which command is suitable for excluding parts of data in the XVI export? Or is this not possible at all? Thanks. Torsten

3 6

Weird handling of directions
by Tarquin Wilton-Jones 28 Sep '21

28 Sep '21

Hi folks, Technical problem. Perhaps something to do with PROJ. Perhaps I have my declinations backwards? survey testdirection -title "Test direction" centreline date 2021.08.13 cs OSGB:ST #change this to test other grid squares fix startst 0.0000000000 0.0000000000 0.0000000000 station endst "end" entrance data normal from to length compass clino #for SU # startst endst 10 0.22666712328 0 #for ST startst endst 10 0.7235958904109588 0 #for SH # startst endst 10 1.51343150685 0 endcentreline endsurvey thconfig: source "testdirection.th" export cave-list -surveys on -location on -o testpositions.html Those compass bearings match the declination at those locations, on those dates. I can see this in the Therion output pane: geomag declinations (deg): 2021.1.1 -0.8475 2022.1.1 -0.6465 I have double checked them against https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml#declination and I get the same numbers there (rounded to 2 dp). Therion seems to be doing the right thing so far. I have converted the startst location into lat,long (using both Helmert and OSTN5+drift just in case it made a difference). Then applied a northerly 10 metre geodesic to see where it lands (using two separate geodesics formulae just in case it made a difference), when given that bearing and declination. When doing this at the SU0000000000 line (where OSGB grid and true north line up), Therion gets the same answer as me for the endst coordinates: SU 0.000 10.000 -0.000 When doing this at the ST0000000000 line (where OSGB grid and true north do not line up), the geodesic calculation gives this (1 mm rounding errors possible due to imperfections in geodesic formulae): ST 0.276501 9.994217 0.000 (Converted using Helmert, to be compatible with Therion, but the results are within 1 mm when converting more accurately.) Therion gives an answer that is shifted to one side by 8 cm: ST 0.192 9.998 0.000 This seems to cause a rotation to our entire survey. The amount of rotation depends on the location of the cave. Where we are working, it is a 12 cm shift within a length of just 10 metres. By the time you reach SH0000000000 it is a 23 cm shift. Am I wrong somewhere? Or is Therion (and perhaps Survex?) applying the declinations in the wrong place? If someone wants to help debug this, you can do conversion from grid to lat/long using Helmert here (note, use SH 00000.000000 00000.000000 format with several decimal places to avoid it using the middle of a grid square): http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/php/gridref.php And you can perform geodesics here: https://geographiclib.sourceforge.io/cgi-bin/GeodSolve?type=D&input=50.7909… Thanks for any help, Tarquin

1 1

Survex splays flag in Therion
by rsev＠protonmail.com 22 Sep '21

22 Sep '21

Hi, I've been experimenting a new workflow, new for me at least, where I prepare the survey data at Survex and import the resulting Survex 3d files in Therion. I'm facing a issue with splay shots. Survex correctly identifies splay shots flagged with "*flags splay": it draws them differently and won't add them at survey statistics. The problem is that Therion seems to ignore the "*flags splay" setting and both: * draws the splay shots as if they were real shots and * add their length to the total cave length. Attached is a simple example where this issue can be observed. If you open "splay_test.svx" in Aven, you will get a total length of 20 m as expected. If you open "splay_test.pdf", produced by Therion, you will see that at this file the cave length is reported as 26 m (these extra 6 m are the 2 splays in the original svx file). Is there a way to make Therion recognize the splay shots flags defined in the Survex file so I can control their appearance separately from the main shots and their length not be included on the total cave length? I'm using Aven 1.2.44 and Therion 6.0.2+0abb46d. Regards, Rodrigo Severo

3 3

Ariane's line - Underwater cave survey device
by Fra 18 Sep '21

18 Sep '21

Hi! I just stumbled on what I think is a pretty new underwater cave surveying device. It's called "Ariane's line", you can find more details on this website: arianesline.com Maybe if someone with more knowledge and experience than myself is interested I guess it would be nice to get in touch with the developer to get Therion files out of his software. I don't own one and it will take quite a while before I'll be able to cave dive, so unfortunately I don't have any more information or data other than what can already be found on the website. I just thought it could be of interest at least to some of you! Cheers, Francesco

4 3

Existing xvi background images not visible in XTherion Map Editor, insertion causes error
by Bruce Mutton 17 Sep '21

17 Sep '21

Mōrena Something bad has happened with regard to xvi image processing (in 6.0.2 and maybe a little earlier but I have not tested). A friend attempting to get it running in a Windows 10 VM (from a Mac host I think) asked me about this. Unfortunately I have the same experience with a standard Windows 10 installation and Therion 6.0.2, over a couple of projects, so I’m assuming it is universal. Opening th2 files via XTherion Map Editor that include background images (jpg, png) seem to be OK. Opening some th2 files with that include background images display partially (survey legs and splays only, no stations) but are not listed in the background sketches pane on the right.. Opening other th2 files the xvi is invisible and also not listed in the background sketches pane on the right. Attempting to insert a new xvi into the former th2 gives an error as below and as attached (from different projects and machines). Opening the latter gives the image below – note that the background images pane is blank in both cases. The content of the header in the th2 file seems to be OK, as highlighted below. It is just that XTherion is now silently failing to display it (or failing to display it properly). Seems like this is a bug! Bruce

3 3