September 2003 - Therion

Re: [therion-users] Therion a MacOS X 10.2.3 - working!!!
by Martin Sluka 24 Sep '03

24 Sep '03

I've been looking for into survex and therion on mac ox x. Unfortunately I have not had much success installing X11 apps without the aid of fink. I have installed and run Therion in terminal but nothing happens when i try to execute xTherion. Is there a special place where i need to put the xtherion directory? Currently there is a xtherion symlink in /usr/bin pointing to ~/downloads/Therion/xtherion/xtherion. Tcl/Tk is also installed but I'm not sure about the Bwidget. Is there a guide for us Mac OS X 'nix noobs? Thanks! Gary http://www.garyritchie.com --

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therion 0.2.15 uploaded to Debian
by Wookey 11 Sep '03

11 Sep '03

I've debianised and uploaded the 0.2.15 release so in a day or two Michael should be able to apt-get the new powerpc version and tell us that it works now.... The new version looks nice in my 2-minute play with it. Great work guys. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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Re: How do all the metapost parts fit together.
by Martin Budaj 09 Sep '03

09 Sep '03

Michael Lake writes: > I see that thPoint.mp contains... ... > and that thdraw is defined in mpost/therion.mp which I think is generated from thmpost.h which is generated from your RCS system. I am trying to work out how this all fits together. Actually, thmpost.h file is generated from all metapost sources by the script genmpost.pl in the mpost directory. The reason for this is that we had problems to set-up TeX and MetaPost searching paths for macro files indenpendent on used OS and TeX distribution. Now all macros are stored in the therion executable in a form of a string and are written to working directory just before running metapost and tex. > I gather then that you have some scripts that will generate HTML from the file and that the HTML can document the available symbols. Am I guessing right? Like the ASF symbol for a fixed station. This HTML-like markup is an artefact from 1999/2000 version. There is a perl script which generated HTML documentation, see http://therion.speleo.sk/symlib/ for an example. We plan to make such documentation easier, without HTML markup -- this will require to use standard names for all the symbols, based on symbol names in the Therion Book, e.g. p_sand_UIS for UIS point symbol for sand. > What would be nice would be to generate automatically a PDF doc that has the name of the UIS symbol and it's picture i.e. run a script that processes the mp fragments, extracts the name and desription, creates the eps files and then runs pdflatex to make a table of all the UIS symbols listed alphabetically or by type of symbol. This'll be no problem then. We want to support also automatical creation of a map legend which would contain only symbols used in particuler map &c. > The reason why I am trying t fit it together is so I can do things like make my own symbols -- well even help you make the many other UIS symbols that arent in therion yet too. I dont know much metapost but can learn. It appears at present that to add new symbols one must add the mp code and then recompile. It's possible to add/change metapost symbols without new therion compilation. The interface is rather experimental but should work. You may include symbol re-definition in the layout command (after the undocumented `code metapost' command) in the last development version of therion: layout my ... # indicates that following lines are metapost code code metapost # follows an example of an redefinition of a stalactite to empty symbol # # Stalactite is (at present; will be changed soon) internal therion's # name for stalactite point symbol -- look at the first column in # the file thTrans.mp (which maps internal names to names used # in the metapost definitions) # # Parameters count and type is fixed; see the original definition # of the stalactite symbol (p_stalactite_UIS) in the file thPoint.th def Stalactite(expr a,b,c,d) = enddef; endlayout > Also I see you need help with writing some sections in the manual - like the section "New map symbols". Yes, help is welcome ;) but we have probably to clean 4-years old metapost code first... Then I'll try to write at least some hints how to create new symbols. Regards, Martin

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Re: How do all the metapost parts fit together.
by Wookey 09 Sep '03

09 Sep '03

+++ Stacho Mudrak [03-09-08 16:04 +0200]: > On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:11:24 +1000, Michael Lake <mikel(a)speleonics.com.au> > wrote: > If somebody would > like to check our point, line and area types and write comments about it > like: > > What has a wrong spelling? > What is not understandable? > What names should be preferred? (for example: we use popcorn (US) not > cauliflower-calcite (UIS))? > What symbols are missing? > etc. I'll try and look these over whilst packaging the next version. Although I'll be very happy if Mike beats me to it :-) > OK, some words about our view of internationalization: > > Therion input files language will be only english (like survex). In fact, > it's a code and I have a very negative experience with code written in > other languages (Micro$oft once released VisualBasic in SLOVAK (something > really nasty) - in the next release, they came back to english) Agreed. > 2. We're also not keen on putting other languages into xtherion. The reason > is simple, I've a very bad experience with all programs translated into > SLOVAK. > > The translations are usually less understandable - a lot of technical terms > have their equivalents in Slovak - but in Slovakia usually english terms > not Slovak are used (ok, may be in France or Germany it's different :). And > also, there are allways problems with regional special characters... > > The last thing is - that terms like stalactites, helictites etc. are a part > of input files - so people should understand them anyway. Like they > understand words like length, bearing, clino in survex. I understand what you are saying - I agree that anything in xtherion which is really referring to the element names in the therion input file should match up. On the other hand it is definately necessary to have proper local language translations for menus, error messages, help and documentation to allow software to be widely used by those who don't already speak good english. Eventually the xtherion interface should get to the point where many users will only use it via the graphical interface and won't be editing text files much at all. When that is true it is important that the meaning of symbols is easily understood, and the cross-reference to the code in the data files becomes less significant. So, I do think that translations are necessary in the user interface, but I agree that the need for the correspondence with the data-files to be clear, makes this problem harder than usual. Displaying both a translation and the string that will be netered in the data-file is probably best, but it might have to be switchable because they won't both fit on the screen. We probably have more important things to worry about at this stage, but I don't think it's right to say 'xtherion is only in english' as a policy. Survex's portuguese support, for example, has made it very popular in Brazil. This wouldn't have happened if it had been english-only. And survex has the same aspect as therion in that the data files are essentially in english. Translating the user-interface is definately a good thing and we should put the infrastructure in place, otherwise whilst the output can be read by anyone, only those who read good english can use the software. > 3. Therion map and atlas output will be translated into other languages > probably very soon. When it will generate lists of map symbols, they will > be described in local language. OK Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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???
by Stacho Mudrak 09 Sep '03

09 Sep '03

???

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New conference address
by Stacho Mudrak 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

Hello everybody, we've moved therion conference to our server, because there were a lot of problems with the old one. Now the adress is therion(a)speleo.sk. More details will come soon on the web-page. S.

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Re: [therion-users] Re: therion does a seg fault when I try and run it
by Stacho Mudrak 08 Sep '03

08 Sep '03

> thpoint.cxx:868): invalid combination of values -- +1.5 -3 This is caused by "unsigned char = -1" problem, should be fixed in the latest 0.2.15 version available on the server. > Thanks for the help. I will now have a look at the diff of that therion.cxx file you sent and see what has changed. I've probably not used va_start, va_end C functions correctly... > I will also write down and send the other compiler warnings and pdf warnings that I get too. We're prepared :) S.

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[therion-users] Re: therion does a seg fault when I try and run it
by Michael Lake 06 Sep '03

06 Sep '03

Hi I have been looking at the problem of the compilation on the PowerPC and started looking at some of the compilation errors too. 1. thpoint.cxx:446: warning: `.' not followed by `*' or digit in format thats because you have at this line the following... sprintf(buff,"%0.f",this->xsize); should that be instead the following? sprintf(buff,"%.0f",this->xsize); 2. The following is more serious. thpoint.cxx:731: warning: assignment of negative value `-1' to `char' void thpoint_parse_value(int & sv, double & dv, bool & qw, char & sign, char * str) and later on.... case '-': sign = -1; str++; break; OK my programming skills are rudimentary but if you assign a negative value to a character pointer then the variable will give a different value depending whether the operating system is 32 or 64 bit. My Alpha is 64 bit. The compiler warns about it and rightly so. 3. I have tracked down where the strange string comes from when I run ./therion -v therion$ ./therion -v therion gduxs:l:qLvhip: it's from thcmdline.cxx where it uses the getopt routines. oc = getopt_long (argc, argv, "gduxs:l:qLvhip:", thlong_options, &oindex); I read the man 3 page on getopt and so now I know what the gduxs:l:qLvhip: string is -- never used getopt myself. So somehow instead of the version string being returned its returning the argument to the getopt_long function ! eeeewwww :-) The version of getopt on my Ti PowerBook here running Debian 3.0 is therion$ getopt --version getopt (enhanced) 1.1.2 Mike -- Mike Lake Caver, Linux enthusiast and interested in anything technical.

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[therion-users] therion does a seg fault when I try and run it
by Michael Lake 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

Hi all, I have just installed therion from source on a Debian Ti PowerBook and Im getting seg faults when I run it. The compiliation had a few warnings but nothing serious. I can post the output later if you want that. xtherion runs ok but fails with a compile warning. So I tried just therian as below. I am using your demo data. demo$ therion therion (null) reading initialization file ... done. reading configuration file ... done. reading source files ... done. processing survey data ... done. calculating basic statistics ... done. processing references ... done. selecting export objects ... done. scanning data tree ... done. processing projection (null) ... done. writing ... This is MetaPost, Version 0.641 (Web2C 7.3.7) (data.mp [4001] [4002] [4003] [4004] [1] [2] [3] [4] [6] [7] [8] [9] ) 12 output files written: data.1 .. data.4004 Transcript written on data.log. converting scraps... done. Segmentation fault I tried "therion -h" runs fine, demo$ therion -v therion gduxs:l:qLvhip: demo$ therion --print-encodings gduxs:l:qLvhip: Segmentation fault I removed the encoding lines from all the files that had utf-8 in them just in case that was the problem but no luck. Any suggestions on tests that I can do ? -- Mike Lake Caver, Linux enthusiast and interested in anything technical. UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F DISCLAIMER ======================================================================== This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views the University of Technology Sydney. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. ========================================================================

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