June 2008 - Therion

Therion + Subversion
by Jonny Prouty 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

Hello All, I have recently begun experimenting with using Subversion to manage my Therion data. I'm curious whether anyone else has done this and if you have any specific advice? So far it works great, but I haven't really put it through its paces. -Jonny ^v^

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OS X Download
by David A. Riggs 23 Jun '08

23 Jun '08

Hi all, I'm looking for a pre-built binary download of Therion for an Intel Mac running OS X 10.5.3. Compiling is not an option. Does anyone have a built version available that would work? Thanks! - DR -- David A. Riggs <david.a.riggs(a)gmail.com>

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outline only
by marco corvi 18 Jun '08

18 Jun '08

hi, how does one make a cave map where some scraps are drawn in full details and others with the outline only ? thanks, marco

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Re: [Therion] Hopefully a bunch of new users; Optimum Data Managment
by Bruce Mutton 16 Jun '08

16 Jun '08

If I interpret Marco's post regarding data structure description correctly, it seems you have folders for (hope my ascii pictures survive intact) -Cave folder |-'surveys', |-'groups of surveys' and |-'whole cave - collection of the groups' [thconfig file((s) for each output task] all at the same hierarchical level, but able to be stacked up or nested if other caves were to be incorporated into the data set. Seems nice and tidy to me, but the folder hierarchy does not match the conceptual hierarchy of the data, which would be more like Jonathan described, -Region folder |-cave folder |-Surveys |-Notes [scanned notes taken in cave] |-Therion [survey *.th data files] |-Pictures |-Date [pictures taken on this date] I like the concept that the folder hierarchy matches the data hierarchy and especially that it is very cave centric, ie not just Therion data, but all data related to the cave Both the above seem quite tidy, and as Martin has just posted, each user will have their own "cave project circumstances and preferences" Marcos seems to me like it would have many versions of a number of thconfig files. I have found maintaining consistency among many thconfigs to be quite a problem, as I am still learning and refining my opinion of what is a good way to set them out. I am also trying to optimise my system for collaborative data entry and development of the Therion cave dataset, which Therion seems ideally suited to. Therefore the tiny size of the Therion batch files is an advantage I want to keep. So I would adopt Jonathans 'single cave centric' model at once, except I don't want to be emailing back and forth large chunks of non-Therion data amongst the people developing the dataset, nor do I want to have to pick out fiddly bits of non relevant data each time. I have adopted the perhaps the lesser approach of having two parallel folders, one for Therion data and one for non-Therion data such as photos, cave related texts and articles, scanned cave survey notes etc. The Therion folders look something like this; (My thconfig files have the extension .thc - much nicer if using with Windows OS) (and as with the others, highly modular, one survey and very few scraps per file) (and with a fairly highly structured and explicit naming convention so you know what is in a file without peering into it - not really described herein) -Regional folder [RegionINDEX.th contains very simple equates and 'maps', Single Region.thc contains layouts and all exports for region wide outputs] |-common folder [layoutSTANDARD.thc, club logos and graphics common to all layouts] |-outputs folder [all output files go here] |-surface folder [overlandsurveys.th, overlandINDEX.th, surfaceINDEX.th, surface.jpg] |-cave1 folder [surveys.th contains centrelines & maps relating to associated scraps, caveAElev290.th2 contains scraps generally relating to survey A, caveINDEX.th containing entrance co-ords; equates; joins and maps, single cave1.thc contains layouts and all exports for cave1 wide outputs, and if there is no actual survey data, caveplan.jpg - a picture of an old fashioned cave plan for which there is no data] |-sketches [sketchAElev290.jpg containing sketches for scraps relating to this cave.] |-cave2 folder [caveINDEX.th contains very simple equates and 'maps', Single cave2.thc contains layouts and all exports for cave2 wide outputs |-group21 folder [same as for cave1 folder above] |-sketches [sketchAElev290.jpg containing sketches for scraps relating to this cave group or branch.] |-group22 folder [same as for cave1 folder above] |-sketches [as above.] Cave1 is a simple cave a few km long perhaps; cave2 might have many km or distinct 'branches'. This is perhaps flatter than Jonathans, but still hierarchical. Has few thconfig files, one per 'family' of passages 'selected' for output and one 'singlesurveytest.thc per cave, to enable frequent and quick checking of survey and sketch data as it is being entered (and still they drive me crazy). The common, outputs and surface folders live at the top level and do not need to be shared (often) among users. The cave data folders can easily be zipped without the sketches and shared by email. This is working well informally with two users, but would require good discipline and record keeping with more simultaneous users. I plan to keep single thconfig files for exporting all outputs, but break them up into referenced modules according to function; ie layoutMapPlan.thc, layoutMapElevation290.thc, layoutAtlasPlan.thc, etc. This might make them easier to manage. We don't do splay legs (well, perhaps one or two for every 100 survey legs, or if the passage is 20m wide and the surveyors' fussy) so I don't make a distinction for them. I have yet to deal with significant levels of the cave which over/under-lie each other, but I will have to come to grips with it shortly. I am hoping my structure above will work well in this scenario. I will heed Martins sage advice quoted below. "The main principle is that the map itself is divided into small pieces - scraps. The scraps are absolutely independent from survey structure created more or less historically. You may use in one scrap data from several surveys made historically in very long interval by different surveyors. Only condition is all the data are accessible in survey which include the map structure with that particular scrap. The main rules to create such structure is to divide the system into horizontal layers (in case of map) which the atlas will be able to recognize and shows in enough simple way. There one may see the importance of idea of scraps -you may reorganize your structure anytime in the future. The main problem is organize the maps and submaps. The structure of survey data itself is existing more or less automatically." Any other insights or ways of setting out the data appreciated. Bruce

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Depth labels
by Ricardo Constantino 14 Jun '08

14 Jun '08

Hello All, I'm using Therion for UW caves, where I enter survey data is this format : "data diving station depth left right up down ignore newline length bearing ignoreall" I'm trying to output a map, with the depth labels for some of the stations. Where and how can I do this. [my apologies if this is too simple a question - just direct me to the relevant page in the manual :)] Thanks in advance, Ricardo www.ENTRADA.tv

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(no subject)
by Jonny Prouty 12 Jun '08

12 Jun '08

Hello, Hello, I've installed the win32 version of therion on a USB thumb drive, so that I can use it on my computer at work. This has worked fine until recently. Here is the error I get when I try to compile a map through xtherion. Error: can't read "xth(th_exit_number)"" no such element in array. Here is the contents of the log file: can't read "xth(th_exit_number)": no such element in array can't read "xth(th_exit_number)": no such element in array while executing "if {$xth(th_exit_number) == $xth(th_exit_number_last)} { set err 1 } else { set xth(th_exit_number_last) $xth(th_exit_number) }" (procedure "xth_cp_compile" line 78) invoked from within "xth_cp_compile" (procedure "xth_app_make" line 20) invoked from within "xth_app_make" (command bound to event) When I try to compile using therion directly from the command line, I get the following error: therion 0.5.2 cavern.exe - Survex 1.0.39 configuration file: thconfig reading ... done reading source files ... done preprocessing database ... done scanning centreline tree ... done searching for centerline loops ... done calculating station coordinates ... done average loop error: 2.41% processing survey data ... done calculating basic statistics ... done processing extended elevation ... done processing references ... done selecting export objects ... done processing projection plan ... done average distortion: 2.16% writing clay_plan.pdf ... The system cannot find the drive specified. therion: error -- metapost exit code -- 1 Press ENTER to exit! Any idea what might be causing it? Thanks. -- Jonny ^v^

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grid on elevation map
by Gilbert Fernandes (mailinglist) 07 Jun '08

07 Jun '08

hello, I try to put a grid on my survey, I set the grids instructions in the thconfig file grid-size 50 50 50 m grid top it's work find for the map, but on the elevation map, Therion generate grid lines outside the survey. Explanation : my cave elavation go from level 0 to -208. I have the grid lines for level 0, -50, -100, -150, -200 and it's fine. But I have also the grid lines for level +50 and -250. So my PDF doc is very high. How can I suppress these 2 grid lines. On the map I do not have the problem, grid cross are "inside" the map rectangle, not outside. Thanks, Gilbert

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Altitude
by Ben Cooper 06 Jun '08

06 Jun '08

I'm trying to put "altitude" points into my map. I've used point altitude successfully, but the number over-writes the cave. I've found I can move the point outside the cave outline, and it still reports the correct altitude, but it the "dot" appears now outside the cave, of course, as attached. Is there a way of specifying the position of the altitude "point" within the cave passage, but moving the text outside? I could do this manually of course with a point label, but then the altitude data would not be computed from the centreline, so not ideal. Can anyone advise me on this one? - Ben

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2nd Balkan Speleo Reunion Camp
by Stelios Zacharias 06 Jun '08

06 Jun '08

Dear all, The Hellenic Federation of Speleology is organising the second Balkan Speleo Reunion Camp in the Northern Greek region of Drama next week, on behalf of the Balkan Speleological Union (BSU). We are expecting participants from all the Balkan countries which are members of the BSU. Is there any interest in asking the organisers for a venue to discuss Therion (or survey in general) with other users? The organising committee may be reached on meetings(a)fhs.gr and I am sure that they would be able to accommodate such a request in the programme. If there is no interest for something organised, may I ask whether there will be any Therion users attending who might be interested in sharing experiences with me during the camp? The camp will run from 13 to 23 June and details may be found here: http://www.fhs.gr/2ndbsrc/ Cheers, Stelios Zacharias SELAS Caving Club Pasionos 44-46 Athens - 116 31 Greece www.selas.org

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Team member who didn't do any survey
by Jonny 06 Jun '08

06 Jun '08

Hello, I'm curious as to how I can get my buddy's name on a map even though he didn't go on a survey trip where actual surveying was going on. We went in and sketched already surveyed passage. Is there a simple way to do this? Thanks. -Jonny ^v^

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