- Therion - speleo.sk

web and mailing lists upgraded
by Martin Budaj 31 Oct '26

31 Oct '26

Hi all, the mailing list and web server have been upgraded. All subscribers have been migrated to the new system and can continue posting to therion(a)speleo.sk. Please note that the web portal for user settings is no longer available. To manage your subscription, please use the following email addresses: - subscribe: therion-join(a)speleo.sk - unsubscribe: therion-leave(a)speleo.sk Your Wiki credentials remain unchanged. Best regards, Martin

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server maintanance
by Martin Budaj 23 Oct '26

23 Oct '26

Hi all, please be aware that we will be upgrading and migrating the therion.speleo.sk server this weekend. During this time, the website and mailing list will be temporarily unavailable. The GitHub repository (github.com/therion/therion) will remain accessible as usual. Best regards, Martin

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Filename resolution for source and input is inconsistent with documented Therion syntax
by mike＠mikemccombe.co.uk 04 Oct '26

04 Oct '26

In the description of the "input" statement, The Therion Book states: "Default extension is .th and may be omitted." I understand this to mean that: "input bigcave" is equivalent to: "input bigcave.th" rather than meaning that an actual extensionless file named "bigcave" is also a valid Therion source. Both "input" and "source" ultimately use thinput to open files. The filename-resolution logic appears to try an extensionless pathname before applying the configured extensions. Thus, given: "input bigcave" Therion effectively tries: bigcave bigcave.th bigcave.th2 stopping at the first pathname it can open. This causes a platform-dependent failure if a directory called "bigcave" exists alongside "bigcave.th". Under Windows, attempting to open the directory as an input stream fails, so Therion continues and successfully opens "bigcave.th". Under Linux, opening the directory as an input stream succeeds. Therion therefore accepts the directory as its source and subsequently attempts to read it as a text file. The stream enters a failure state, which Therion reports with the misleading fatal error: "Line too long" The same problem occurs with "source". Minimal reproduction: Create a directory containing: thconfig bigcave.th bigcave/ (an empty directory) with thconfig containing: "source bigcave" and bigcave.th containing valid Therion source. On Linux this fails with "line too long". Any of the following makes it work: * Change the configuration to "source bigcave.th". * Remove or rename the "bigcave" directory. * Compile the same ambiguous project under Windows. This suggests that the underlying problem is that "the .th extension may be omitted" has been implemented as "first try opening the extensionless pathname" rather than "if the extension is omitted, use the default .th extension." There is a related issue with using the same generic filename-resolution mechanism for both "source" and "input". I believe the intended semantics are: input bigcave -> bigcave.th input bigcave.th -> bigcave.th input bigcave.th2 -> bigcave.th2 source bigcave -> bigcave.th source bigcave.th -> bigcave.th source bigcave.th2 -> invalid An explicitly specified .th2 file is therefore a valid target for "input", but that does not make .th2 an alternative default extension when the extension is omitted. Similarly, an actual extensionless filesystem object is not a valid interpretation of either statement. In other words, thinput appears to test filesystem objects that are not valid interpretations of the Therion statement that invoked it. Resolving the filename according to the semantics of "source" or "input" before attempting to open it would also remove the Windows/Linux difference and prevent a directory from being mistaken for a Therion source file. Regards, Mike

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Good practices for xvi files?
by Jean-Florent Raymond 24 Sep '26

24 Sep '26

Hi all, I have some problems with xvi files so I wonder if I do things the right way. Like many of you I guess, I use to draw incrementally. That is, I have a therion project that compiles to a map of a cave we are currently exploring and when we discover new stuff, we survey it and I add it to the map with the following steps: 1. Add the new data in a new th file to the project folder. 2. Compile to update the xvi file. 3. Open the drawing with xtherion and draw the part of the cave corresponding to the new data. 4. Compile to get a pdf. (in particular in this example there is a unique xvi file and a unique th2 file for the whole cave) The problem is in step 3 when I open the drawing with xtherion. Sometimes the updated xvi is shifted compared to the existing drawing, possibly because it does not have the same dimensions as previously. This is annoying but can be fixed by manually positioning it. However if I close a loop then the xvi centerline is distorted (to distribute along the loop the unavoidable error) so in xtherion the previously draw map does not correspond at all to that centerline. Problems: - I have to position the xvi manually (this cannot be avoided I suppose) - Only the new parts of the cave can be drawn on the xvi, because the old ones do not correspond anymore. In particular I cannot easily rework previously drawn parts of the cave. I tried to think of different solutions: a) Generate a different xvi file for each time I add data, so that I can always open in xtherion an xvi file that matches the part of the drawing I am interested in. b) Accept that the xvi file will only match the latest part of the drawing and each time I add data, fix it position with respect to the station where the new data starts. c) Use a version control software like git, so that I can easily find in the history a version of the xvi file matching the part of the drawing I want to work on. (I would like to avoid this option because when teaching therion to beginners there is already a lot to tell and I do not want to add git on top of that.) What about you, how do you deal with that? Best, Jean-Florent.

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th_formdef.tex runaway text error - LuaTeX
by bruce＠tomo.co.nz 20 Sep '26

20 Sep '26

>From my query two weeks ago, and Martin's suggestion I try LuaTeX. I've edited C:\Program Files\Therion\therion.ini to include. pdftex-path "luatex" I'm missing something: Running my thconfig with Mapiah, I get a log file that ends with. making map ... done 'luatex' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. C:\Program Files\Therion\therion.exe: error --Press ENTER to exit! pdftex exit code - 1 Running my thconfig with XTherion, there is no mention of Luatex. I get a log file that ends with. ##################### end of pdftex log file ##################### C:\Program Files\Therion\therion.exe: error -- pdftex exit code -- 1 writing xtherion file ... done I checked my %APPDATA%\ folders, and the only Therion related ini in there is Loch.ini Any ideas? Bruce

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Scrap (background) sketches don't offset
by bruce＠tomo.co.nz 28 Aug '26

28 Aug '26

Hello Some 17.5 years later I seem to have tried the same unusual trick that I did in 2008 [Therion] Cave Sketches don't offset <https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg02394.html> I try to export a scrap that has a -scrap image set, and I find that while the scrap content renders in the offset position, its background sketch renders without being offset. Did it get looked at back then? Perhaps there is a reason it is not implemented. Or maybe it was reverted by a subsequent change? Regards Bruce

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Bug on Win? - Magick
by Pavel Herich 27 Aug '26

27 Aug '26

Hi, on newest versions of Therion following error is being reported: povrch_bielovod_javor.th [7] -- error reading bitmap -- unable to read image C:/Users/Herich/Desktop/databaza_sk/jaskyne_ine/Tatry/_povrch_bielovod_javor/povrch1_geol.jpg -- Magick: NoDecodeDelegateForThisImageFormat `C:/Users/Herich/Desktop/databaza_sk/jaskyne_ine/Tatry/_povrch_bielovod_javor/povrch1_geol.jpg' @ error/constitute.c/ReadImage/739 Hope it´s some minor issue... Thank you Pavel

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Sketch offset
by Sau --- 24 Aug '26

24 Aug '26

Hello, i have trouble with sketches in pdf output. I have offset map to north, but all looks ok. Where are my mistake? -- Sau --- Отправлено из Почты Mail ( https://trk.mail.ru/c/zzm979 )

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th_formdef.tex runaway text error
by bruce＠tomo.co.nz 12 Aug '26

12 Aug '26

Hello I've just created an error, due I believe to particular layout changes I've made to a couple of exported elevations, but I'm yet to isolate which changes are the culprits. (It's not related to recent posts I've made on therion/therion: therion <https://github.com/therion/therion> - cave surveying software, and it is consistent across all recent Therion versions) Perhaps someone may know if I can use the therion log information to track down the cause? Using the below information I checked in file thTMPDIR /th_formdef.tex .and found the string \PL{9178.94 283.21 m}% on line 165540. There are 220130 lines overall, and the file seems to end without obvious truncation. That in itself does not help much. I'm sure I'll be able to isolate the cause by other means, but I'm just wondering if anyone knows if I could use this information to locate a cause? Bruce #################### end of metapost log file #################### converting scraps ... done making map ... done ######################## pdftex log file ######################### This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.22 (TeX Live 2021/W32TeX) (preloaded format=pdfetex 2023.12.2) 30 MAR 2026 14:09 entering extended mode **data.tex (./data.tex (./th_enc.tex) (./th_texts.tex) (./th_resources.tex (c:/Program Files/Therion/texmf/tex/glyphtounicode.tex)) (./th_fontdef.tex{c:/P rogram Files/Therion/texmf/fonts/pdftex.map}) (./th_formdef.tex Runaway text? 9178.9 ! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [main memory size=3500000]. l.165540 \PL{9178.94 283.21 m}% If you really absolutely need more capacity, you can ask a wizard to enlarge me. Here is how much of TeX's memory you used: 263 strings out of 95671 3772 string characters out of 1192323 3500001 words of memory out of 3500000 1667 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+50000 16503 words of font info for 54 fonts, out of 1000000 for 2000 844 hyphenation exceptions out of 5000 5i,1n,6p,289b,36s stack positions out of 5000i,500n,10000p,200000b,50000s ! ==> Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced! ##################### end of pdftex log file ##################### C:\Program Files\Therion\therion.exe: error -- pdftex exit code -- 1 writing xtherion file ... done

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Therion date ranges
by bruce＠tomo.co.nz 02 Aug '26

02 Aug '26

Mapiah recently highlighted a typo I made in some of my th2 files a year or so ago - detail here, but perhaps it is not important - [BUG] Parsing errors on opening some th2 files <https://github.com/rsevero/mapiah/issues/42> . Issue #42 . rsevero/mapiah I'm curious as to what Therion users understand is the intention with, or desirable for, the date range specification. The Therion Book says. Nothing there about the order of the dates, and it seems Therion is agnostic as to whether the earliest date in the range is specified first or last. I had always assumed incorrectly that the earliest date should be first. Survex date specification seems to be more flexible, allowing multiple distinct dates as well as ranges. I tried some variations of this with a single statement line with Therion, but it seems Therion cannot handle multiple distinct dates, unless multiple statements would do it - did not check. Survex 1.4.22 documentation - date <https://survex.com/docs/manual/datafile.htm#date> If Therion put up a warning when it detected a date range specified in the wrong order, then my typo might have been detected at the time. May I suggest that some date related warnings be added to Therion: * [author] [explorer] [topo] [copyright] date range in reverse order in [object name] * date earlier than 1900 AD in [object name] * future date specified in [object name] Bruce

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