- Therion - speleo.sk

Convert .th to .svx?
by Francesco Serafin 30 Jul '26

30 Jul '26

I would like to convert the attached th survey into a survex txt file. I manually set the standard deviation for distance and compass in the th and I want to see if it is translated correctly into an svx file. In the thcfg file I tried an export command to svx but it didn't give a readable output. Would anyone know how to convert the th into svx please? Thank you Francesco

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ThIDE - a Therion IDE and a structural geology module
by Alex Pologea 17 Jul '26

17 Jul '26

Started a new application a few months ago, initially as a new Therion parser dedicated for extracting measurements from the entire cave survey to continue a prototype desktop tool made some years ago for calculating structural planes. It evolved to an IDE / workbench for Therion projects, an older desire, with semantic editing features including syntax checking and symbol navigation, compilation features, 3D and other embedded viewers, scrap editing via Mapiah, and survey analytics, multi monitor support, plus some experimental features like an AI assistant (local LLM via MCP) and Blender export. It is cross-platform (Windows, Linux, macOS), but serious testing has been done only on Windows and sparsely on Linux. It is now in an alpha dev stage, with an evolving UI and bugs expected. https://github.com/apgeo/ThIDE/ The structural geology module calculates planes (dip and strike values) for geological structures in caves (joints, fault determined fractures, and bedding planes) have implemented a module in ThIDE. The original idea was to measure these planes by using a DistoX (or similar laser survey device) to shoot splays on that feature, then to use them to determine a fitting plane. It's a debatable alternative approach we came up for helping researchers instead of using a geologic compass, useful especially on wide pits where you cannot reach the walls. https://github.com/apgeo/ThIDE/blob/main/docs/structural-geology.md Now this process is fully automated and included in ThIDE. The structural calculated planes in the cave are shown overlaid over a 3D model or over the mainline view. It can be tested by renaming a few stations in a Therion project to include the "geo" or other specified text. Alex

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XTherion - Mapaih - Therion Studio
by bruce＠tomo.co.nz 06 Jul '26

06 Jul '26

Mōrena (Good Morning) Yes, two new children on the street! Mapiah and Therion Studio are looking like viable alternatives to XTherion. My journey… * Nineteen years learning to love XTherion * Six months occasionally playing with Mapiah * Three weeks dabbling with Therion Studio I haven’t seriously tried to learn the latter two, just kept banging my head against them to see what it feels like. Both could do with searchable help files. Where I’ve ended up. * Using my favourite text editor to have all the Therion files I might need ready to edit or launch in an app (a 17 year habit) * Mapiah is my compiler every time – faster and cleaner than XTherion * XTherion is my drawing editor – familiar, object parameters are efficiently typed in * Mapiah is my drawing editor if I want to move, stretch rotate a bunch of objects or background image, then I save and head back to XTherion * Studio is what I look at in awe – but apart from the obvious, have not figured it out yet Below is a gut feel comparison, based on dabbling only, and without bothering to read all the instructions and learn the capabilities. Using Windows 11… Characteristic XTherion Mapiah Therion Studio Development repo therion/therion: therion – cave surveying software <https://github.com/therion/therion> https://github.com/rsevero/mapiah https://github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio Speed Slow to load and redraw th2 files Long delay before compile on some devices Very fast th2 rendering and fast compilation. Mapiah’s strength Slow to load the App, fast th2 rendering and compilation Version control friendly (does not rewrite th or th2 file structure if was edited by another App) Mostly compliant if edited with other apps Yes, minor exceptions Yes, as far as I’ve tested Drawing interface Not consistent with modern capabilities and norms (cannot move or transform whole objects, must be moved point by point). Modern capabilities (move and transform whole objects and collections of objects). Mapiah’s strength but Bewildering array of line object editing capabilities An improvement on traditional XTherion capabilities. Yet to explore the capabilities in this respect It might well be Studio’s strength Freehand line drawing No No Yes Facilitates everything Therion can do, and supports legacy workflows such as interactive manual survey data entry. Yes No, or at least not yet Unsure, although it expands on XTherion’s functionality in many areas Can use multiple instances to work on same or multiple projects and multiple applications (eg text editors) simultaneously. Yes Yes Initial experiments suggest multiple instances OK, but only one project at a time Can be used as a compendium single instance editor (th, th2, compiler). Yes Yes, except for general text (th) files Yes, and seems not to like NOT being used this way. Includes error detection & correction, live access to object parameter help. Studio’s strength Most objects can be created efficiently with minimum clicks and maximum typing. Yes, XTherion’s strength No, very very clicky Haven’t used enough to know. Not yet figured out how to draw within the bounds of a scrap object, for example Object visualisation only as points, lines and (if you hold your tongue right) areas Better symbolisation Astounding th2 visualisation. All Therion conceptual objects can be viewed (and edited) as symbolic blocks. Studio’s strength Live update if another App changes open file on disk No No Yes Development pace Steady consistent improvement over 30 years Recent rapid development until 2 months ago Recent rapid development So there it is. Tell me what I’ve missed and where I’m wrong. I’m pretty excited about both Mapiah and Studio. Thanks Rodrigo and Ladislav, your efforts are much appreciated. Bruce Mutton From: Therion <therion-bounces(a)speleo.sk> On Behalf Of ladislav(a)lblazek.cz Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2026 21:34 To: Therion List <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] Therion Studio 2026.6.9 Hi all, New version of Therion Studio (https://github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio) is out, with lot of quality-of-life improvements, bugfixes and performance improvements. See https://github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio/releases/tag/v2026.6.9 I would like to thank all the testers who tested the app, reported issues and suggested improvements. Especially Martin Sluka, Bruce Mutton, Axel Hack and Alex (apgeo) and Therion devs (Stacho, Martin). I recently noticed that the Mapiah project (https://github.com/rsevero/mapiah) is attempting to address the same issue: creating a modern replacement for Xtherion. Unfortunately, I encountered difficulties in running the project on my Mac or even building it from an Xcode project. Despite these challenges, But I’ve heard good things about Mapiah and it seems to be quite mature. Therefore, my objective is to maintain maximum interoperability between Xtherion, Mapiah, and Therion Studio, enabling seamless transitions between these tools. I’m genuinely curious to know the differences between Mapiah and Therion Studio. Has anyone use both? L.

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Therion Studio 2026.6.9
by ladislav＠lblazek.cz 01 Jul '26

01 Jul '26

Hi all, New version of Therion Studio (https://github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio) is out, with lot of quality-of-life improvements, bugfixes and performance improvements. See https://github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio/releases/tag/v2026.6.9 I would like to thank all the testers who tested the app, reported issues and suggested improvements. Especially Martin Sluka, Bruce Mutton, Axel Hack and Alex (apgeo) and Therion devs (Stacho, Martin). I recently noticed that the Mapiah project (https://github.com/rsevero/mapiah) is attempting to address the same issue: creating a modern replacement for Xtherion. Unfortunately, I encountered difficulties in running the project on my Mac or even building it from an Xcode project. Despite these challenges, But I’ve heard good things about Mapiah and it seems to be quite mature. Therefore, my objective is to maintain maximum interoperability between Xtherion, Mapiah, and Therion Studio, enabling seamless transitions between these tools. I’m genuinely curious to know the differences between Mapiah and Therion Studio. Has anyone use both? L.

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Is point station -station an alias for point station -name
by bruce＠tomo.co.nz 16 Jun '26

16 Jun '26

I've just noticed one of our projects has a lot of scrap statements like: point 12998.7 3142.7 station -station 1.22 which are intended to have the same effect as: point 12998.7 3142.7 station -name 1.22 however nothing bad seems to be happening that I have noticed. Is -station a legitimate alias for -name in this circumstance? Or is it an 'accidental' alias? Only noticed because Therion Studio highlighted it as an anomaly. I didn't find anything suggesting this is an intended alias in the Therion Book, but only had a quick look. Bruce

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Therion Studio
by ladislav＠lblazek.cz 06 Jun '26

06 Jun '26

Hi all, Let me introduce Therion Studio, a new cross-platform editor for Therion cave-survey projects. I started this project with a straightforward idea: to create a modern GUI for macOS - XTherion on macOS has had its share of tricky issues/limitations related to Tcl/Tk/BWidgets. During couple of weeks the project evolved into a cross-platform editor that hopes to make using Therion projects smoother and more enjoyable, especially for newcomers. Therion is still an amazing piece of software (huge thanks to Martin and Stacho!), and this project is just my little way of contributing to its ecosystem. Therion itself remains the engine. Therion Studio does not replace the compiler, the Therion language, the data format, or the established cave-survey workflow. You still need to install Therion to compile survey data, and generated 3D models are viewed in Loch as before. Compared with XTherion, Therion Studio focuses on a more modern (and more approachable) desktop experience: – Tabbed workspace for synchronized raw text, block-oriented editing, and visual map editing – Syntax highlingting, autocompletion and validation, built-in context help extracted from Therion Book – Project Structure sidebar for navigating surveys, maps, scraps, and diagnostics – Global project search – Almost WYSIWYG map editor with support for object styles - some needs to be still created – Support for parallel visual and raw editing on multiple monitors – Integrated Compiler for running Therion and reviewing output It is written in C++/Qt and runs on macOS, Windows, and Linux. The application's concept, feature set, specification, and architecture were designed by me based on my experience with Therion projects. OpenAI Codex was used to assist with implementation and speed up development. The first public release focuses on the core functionality required for everyday work with Therion projects. There could still be bugs or missing features, but I think it is time to share it with the community. I would be grateful for any feedback, bug reports, feature suggestions, or testing on real-world data sets. Thank you! See project repo: github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio <https://github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio> and release files: github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio/releases <http://github.com/ladislavb/therion-studio/releases> L.

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Compiling error due to encoding
by Torsten Schnitter 29 May '26

29 May '26

Hello I have a thconfig file where I use the statement "language de"/"language en" to switch language for the output. Within the config file I use some translations like this: ... text de "point passage-height:unsigned" "Ganghöhe" ... text en "point passage-height:unsigned" "passage height" Every time I try to compile with "language de" I get an error: #################### end of metapost log file #################### converting scraps ... done C:\Program Files\Therion\therion.exe: error -- Invalid utf-8 string! writing xtherion file ... done As soon as I switch back to "language en" it does work. Therefore I'm pretty sure it is due to the special characters like 'ö'. I opened the thconfig file with an external editor (Visual Studio Code), removed the first line "encoding utf-8" and saved the file with encoding "ISO 8859-1". As soon as I open the thconfig file with XTherion and start compile the format is resetted to utf-8 and within the thconfig file the first line is replaced to "encoding utf-8" (checke this again with Visual Studio Code". And the error above is the result. Only opening the config file and closing again without any changes does change the encoding line in the config file to utf-8. I'm using Therion 6.4.0 and can't remeber when this behaviour/problem raised. I'm pretty sure some time ago this did work without error. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance! regards, Torsten

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Altitude metapost error -2
by Sau --- 19 May '26

19 May '26

Hello I have error, when using command «color map-fg altitude». If i had commented survey in Berloga.th — « v78 v79 4.61 172.9 -41.7» or changed vert angle to -41.8, then all compiling ok. Log of error: >> d ! Unknown relation will be considered false. <to be read again> : log->begingroup(if(EXPR2)=0: 0else:mlog((EXPR2))/mlog(10)fi)endgroup <to be read again> ; s_altitudebar->...d:=(EXPR1)-(EXPR0);dlog:=log(d); if.dlog.mod1<0.301:dv:=2;e... l.7428 ...1,(0.00750,0.75000,0.00000,0.00000))("") ; Oh dear. I can't decide if the expression above is positive, negative, or zero. So this comparison test won't be `true'. -- Sau --- Отправлено из Почты Mail ( https://trk.mail.ru/c/zzm979 )

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LochViewer - webloch
by Michal Danko 19 May '26

19 May '26

Hey All, I’ve been messing around with AI in the evenings to see what it can do, and here’s the result for you to test and play around with 3D cave models. It’s called WebLoch, and the main focus is speed and easy presentation without needing to install anything—so don't look at it as a replacement, just a neat add-on. I tried to include all the basic features you'd find in the standard Loch program, plus I added a few extra tweaks that I personally liked, along with support for PLY LiDAR files. For PLY, there are currently two processing methods in the top menu, V1 and V2. Give it a spin, play around with it, and if something acts up, just try switching to the V1 version... It’s all still in a very early alpha stage, so I’m mostly just testing the features and what's possible. https://loch.sss.sk/ blog - https://blog.sss.sk/2026/04/30/lochviewer-web-loch/ direct link to lox model - https://loch.sss.sk/?model=https%3A%2F%2Floch.sss.sk%2Ftest_model2.lox direct link to ply model shared via google disk-- https://loch.sss.sk/?model=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googleapis.com%2Fdrive%2Fv3%2F… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAILPeEcZBk&t=6s some screenshots... [image: image.png] [image: image.png] [image: image.png] S pozdravom Ing. Michal Danko

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Coordinate of profile
by Benoit Urruty 16 May '26

16 May '26

Hi, I am currently developing scripts to process the 2D SHP files of the extended and projected cave profiles, and I would like to better understand how the coordinate systems are defined. >From my observations: * Extended profile: * The X coordinate seems to start close to 0, but I cannot determine the actual origin point. There is positive and negative coordinates. * The Y coordinate appears to correspond to a plan-view Y coordinate — possibly the reference point for X — with subsequent values representing cumulative altitude differences relative to this reference. * Projected profile: * The meaning of the X coordinate is still unclear to me. * The Y coordinate appears to represent the altitude of the points. My objective is to determine how to correctly reproject a DEM/MNT profile onto both types of cave profiles. Is there anyone who can help me? Thanks Benoit Urruty

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