- Therion - speleo.sk

how to connect scraps
by Simeon Warner 10 Aug '04

10 Aug '04

I've been using xtherion to trace passage detail from my survey notes and now have a collection of scraps, each one corresponding to a page of my survey notebook. I have been unable to work out or find documented how I can connect up the lines for walls and such on adjacent scraps. At present I get a set of nearly-joined-up map segments when I compile the map from the set of scraps. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Simeon

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Therion 0.3.2
by Martin Budaj 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

Hi all, new version of Therion is available. Changes include: therion: * configuration file changes: - layout command: scale 1 50 upto 1 100000 allowed and supported * Therion constructs accented characters if the character is not present in the font. It used to omit the accent and display the base character only * error message `invalid command context' changed to `missing xxx command before yyy command' * French translation added xtherion: * line split bug fixed * automatically checks for updates * 3D viewer: reload (Ctrl+R) * 3D viewer: bounding box computation fixed Best regards, Martin

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Extended Elevation, and other questions.
by Eric Madelaine 15 Jul '04

15 Jul '04

Hi Stacho, Here is the data off the embut de la Pinee, including whatever cause this wrong extended elevation map. I have not included any scan images (except for the ext. elevatin itself) as it would have be over 4 Mo large... I have corrected some (not all) the "scrap intersects itself" bugs in my maps (its a bit tedious, I cannot do it directly in the map editor, because of the splitline bug...). I also tried, after our discussion, to produced a large-scale "filled galeries" map, on which I wanted to have only the scal and north arrow, but no other headers... I have the feeling that I need redefine some tex-level macros for that, but th ebook is not very useful, it only specifies layout changes for the atlas. I have browsed through the tex sources, but I have nor been able to identify the layout macro (or the header macro) for Maps. I tried something like: layout shadow500 scale 1 500 legend off map-header 100 100 w symbol-hide group all symbol-show point entrance scale-bar 100 m color map-bg 100 color map-fg 0 endlayout export map -o ombre.pdf -layout shadow500 It works, but I'd like: - to remove all header texts (or eventually keep just a title) - add something like "show area water", may be in a different color... Cheers, Eric.

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Re: [therion] Report on Therion Visit in Prague
by Eric Madelaine 12 Jul '04

12 Jul '04

Thanks a lot, first, to Martin (Sluka), Stacho, and Erica for their kindness, for taking me in charge in Praha and Hriby, and for everything they have arranged for this nice session. We were able to have quite an efficient session, and plenty of interesting duscussion on therion present and future, on caving in general, on caves in the check ans slovak republics, in france or elsewhere, on environment, on cave management, on Prague history, on Europe, ....etc. yesterday before leaving, I promissed to make a short report from my notes, so there it is, presented as a list of topics/questions, and when possible a sketch of answers... - Therion not running properly on my W2000 Pro laptop (message "cannot read file data.log"...). => this was in fact a conflict with another installation of latex on the machine, that had set a bunch of latex variables. solution: unset all latex variables before running therion. May be this could be done in the therion script... => should go to the FAQ - Extended elevation not working properly on the Pinée example. => Stacho suggested that this was a problem with the order of the station points in the map file. Indeed this order is significant. But it is not the only problem: Back home I have set the correct order, and the result is still not correct. Stacho, I will send you the files when I have a moment (too bad I had not them on my machine in Hriby); And I will try other (smaller) examples... - A lot of problems with the definition of OUTLINES in the Pinée plan maps. I understand better the outline notion now, and I will spend some time correcting the Pinée exemple. I will definitely try to write some tutorial-like section about this topic. - Split Line bug: when you split an existing line in the map editor, save the file and reload it, one half of the line disappears... => Stacho will have a look... - Cross sections. various discusions, several questions: arrows (or marks) are not displayed by default; have to use e.g. "-direction begin" cross-section lines and scraps must be refered by a common id (or "name"). This will be useful to set references when the section scrap is far from the position of its reference line on the map. The labels naming the sections would be left to be user-defined (but maybe with a specific type, so that one can "hide" them together with the section lines/scraps). - Possibility of translating a part of a map (a scrap?) for avoiding overlapping drawings in some cases. This I originaly asked for extended elevation, where it is most useful, but the mechanism would be the same for other sorts of projections. One difficulty is that one would want to specify where to draw connection lines between the two parts. This is NOT a map object, but rather something similar to "joins". - Transparency for overlapping passages. This is currently handled using transparency and opacity at the PDF level. If one would want to draw the lower level wall using interupted lines (as in the UIS standard), it would have to be computed directly in therion, that would be too much work. => Abandonned. - Tricks and Tips: How do you know which side of a line is the interior (e.g. for a pit...)? Stacho showed me that on the first point of the line there is a small (red ?) arrow, that I would not have seen without my glasses (;-). This is a new feature, not in the Book; very useful. - Production of plans at very large scale (e.g. for inclusion in a topographic map). We need: (1) filling of the passage with colors, (2) specify a large scale bar and (3) a large north direction arrow. => (1) and (2) are feasible, e.g.: symbol-hide group all color map-fg [100 0 0] scale-bar 100 m Having several colors on the same plan (different for galeries and sumps, e.g.) does not seem possible. Having a bigger North arrow (for geo-referencing of the resulting map) should be done in Latex... - Printing of grids on the plan: currently not available. - New symbols: Ropes (for elevations) Meander in ceiling, in floor - Drawing of centerlines, even when you don't have the corresponding scrap. I would find it very useful for a quick evening printing when you do not have enough time for more. Martin Sluka disagrees, because he always draws on scale in the cave (different habits...); but still you have to scan the scraps and edit the map... Long discussions on 3D modelling that I will not try to summary (:-( Cheers, and thanks again, Eric.

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Re: Visit in Prague
by Eric Madelaine 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

I've been looking in more details to my agenda. And I need to book my flight very soon now... So I'm in Charles university in Prague all day on wednesday 7th and thursday 8th. I will arrive in Prague tuesday 6th in the afternoon, and leaving either friday or saterday. It's the first time I go to this area of europe, so I will take some time to visit the city, of course. So I have mainly two options: if I book my return plane friday afternoon (there is one convenient at 5pm), I will have the first evening available (tuesday), plus a part of friday. If some of you are available (for whatever you plan, computer session, caving, or just eating and drinking), and willing to speak french for a while (;-), I can book my plane on saterday, but you'll have to host me for the night, and to drive me back to the airport... <martinsluka(a)mac.com> wrote: >> Eric, Martin, Stacho - no problem, we may make a "therion camp" not >> far from Prague (30 km) - in small village Hriby. I have a small >> house there. What about Lada Blazek? Cheers, Eric.

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Re: french translation (fwd)
by Eric Madelaine 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

Soory I send this message only to Stacho yesterday, I think it's better on the list. And I have corrected some of my translation, so this version is slightly better. Eric. ========================== Subject: Re: french translation (fwd) From: madelain(a)nerim.net Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:58:10 +0200 (CEST) So there is a first try... I hope that the 8-bit accentuated chars will be ok, if you need another encoding, please tell me. There were 2 or 3 words on which I was not sure, depending on the context in which they are used (raft, flute, or scallop...). Anyway they are outside the proper UIS list (;-) We can dicuss them next week may be. I haven't recompiled, I would have to do it on my linux machine at work, and I'm too busy now for that. Anyway I'm not in a hurry, it can wait till next version. Cheers, Eric. >> Adding another (french) language to therion is very simple, it's already >> written in thbook/appendix/Adding new translations. If you do not wish to >> recompile, just add lines starting with "fr:" and corresponding french >> translation to thlang/texts.txt file (you need therion sources and utf-8 >> text editor for it) and send us this file. We will compile it to the next >> release. >> >> Thanks, S. therion: point station:temporary cz: mÄ›Å™iÄskÃ½ bod (nestabilizovanÃ½) en: temporary survey, station sk: meraÄskÃ½ bod (nestabilizovanÃ½) fr: station topo temporaire therion: point station:painted cz: mÄ›Å™iÄskÃ½ bod (zabarvenÃ½) en: painted survey station sk: meraÄskÃ½ bod (zafarbenÃ½) fr: station topo, peinte therion: point station:natural cz: mÄ›Å™iÄskÃ½ bod (pÅ™ÃrodnÃ) en: natural survey station sk: meraÄskÃ½ bod (prÃrodnÃ½) fr: station topo, naturelle therion: point station:fixed cz: mÄ›Å™iÄskÃ½ bod (stabilizovanÃ½) en: fixed survey station sk: meraÄskÃ½ bod (stabilizovanÃ½) fr: station topo, fixe therion: line survey cz: polygonovÃ½ tah en: survey lines sk: polygÃ³novÃ½ Å¥ah fr: visée topo therion: point station-name cz: ÄÃslo mÄ›Å™iÄskÃ©ho bodu en: survey station name sk: ÄÃslo meraÄskÃ©ho bodu fr: station topo, nom therion: point entrance cz: vchod en: entrance sk: vchod fr: entrée therion: line arrow cz: pomocnÃ¡ Å¡ipka en: arrow sk: pomocnÃ¡ Å¡Ãpka fr: flèche therion: line wall:bedrock cz: stÄ›na en: wall sk: stena fr: mur therion: line wall:underlying cz: stÄ›na niÅ¾Å¡Ã ÃºrovnÄ› en: underlying wall sk: stena niÅ¾Å¡ej Ãºrovne fr: mur sousjacent therion: line wall:unsurveyed cz: nezamÄ›Å™enÃ¡ stÄ›na en: unsurveyed wall sk: nezameranÃ¡ stena fr: mur non topographié therion: line wall:presumed cz: pÅ™edpoklÃ¡danÃ¡ stÄ›na en: presumed wall sk: predpokladanÃ¡ stena fr: mur supposé therion: line wall:blocks cz: zÃ¡val en: breakdown sk: stena tvorenÃ¡ zÃ¡valom fr: effrondrement therion: line wall:debris cz: Å¡tÄ›rk en: debris sk: stena tvorenÃ¡ Å¡trkom fr: débris de roche therion: line wall:pebbles cz: valouny en: pebbles sk: stena tvorenÃ¡ okruhliakmi fr: cailloux therion: line wall:sand cz: pÃsek en: sand sk: stena tvorenÃ¡ pieskom fr: sable therion: line wall:clay cz: jÃl en: clay sk: stena tvorenÃ¡ bahnom fr: argile therion: line wall:ice cz: led en: ice sk: stena tvorenÃ¡ Ä¾adom fr: glace therion: point wall-altitude cz: nadmoÅ™skÃ¡ vÃ½Å¡ka bodu na stÄ›nÄ› en: altitude sk: nadmorskÃ¡ vÃ½Å¡ka bodu na stene fr: altitude therion: point altitude cz: nadmoÅ™skÃ¡ vÃ½Å¡ka bodu v chodbÄ› en: altitude sk: nadmorskÃ¡ vÃ½Å¡ka bodu v chodbe fr: altitude therion: line section cz: pÅ™ÃÄnÃ½ Å™ez en: cross-section sk: prieÄny rez fr: section therion: point passage-height:unsigned cz: vÃ½Å¡ka chodby en: passage height sk: vÃ½Å¡ka chodby fr: hauteur du passage therion: point passage-height:positive cz: vÃ½Å¡ka chodby nad hladinou en: height above water level sk: vÃ½Å¡ka nad hladinou fr: hauteur au-dessus de l'eau therion: point passage-height:negative cz: vÃ½Å¡ka chodby pod hladinou en: depth below water level sk: hÄºbka pod hladinou fr: hauteur en dessous de l'eau therion: point passage-height:both cz: vÃ½Å¡ka nad i pod hladinou en: height above and depth below water level sk: vÃ½Å¡ka nad a hÄºbka pod hladinou fr: hauteur au dessous et au dessus de l'eau therion: point air-draught cz: prÅ¯van en: air draught sk: prievan fr: courant d'air therion: point date cz: datum pozorovÃ¡nÃ en: date of observation sk: dÃ¡tum pozorovania fr: date therion: point continuation cz: moÅ¾nÃ© pokraÄovÃ¡nÃ en: possible continuation sk: moÅ¾nÃ© pokraÄovanie fr: suite possible therion: point narrow-end cz: neprÅ¯leznÃ© zÃºÅ¾enÃ en: passage narrow end sk: neprieleznÃ© zÃºÅ¾enie fr: passage impénétrable therion: point low-end cz: neprÅ¯leznÃ© snÃÅ¾enÃ en: passage low end sk: neprieleznÃ© znÃÅ¾enie fr: passage bas therion: point flowstone-choke cz: zasintrovanÃ½ konec en: flowstone choke sk: zasintrenÃ½ koniec fr: trémie calcifiée therion: point breakdown-choke cz: zavalenÃ½ konec en: breakdown choke sk: zavalenÃ½ koniec fr: trémie therion: line floor-step cz: stupeÅˆ en: floor step sk: stupeÅˆ fr: marche therion: line overhang cz: pÅ™evis en: overhang sk: previs fr: surplomb therion: line pit cz: propast en_UK: pitch en_US: pit sk: priepasÅ¥ fr: puits therion: line ceiling-step cz: zmÄ›na vÃ½Å¡ky stropu en: step on the ceiling sk: zmena vÃ½Å¡ky stropu fr: marche de plafond therion: line chimney cz: komÃn en: chimney sk: komÃn fr: cheminée therion: line gradient cz: sklon chodby en: passage gradient sk: sklon chodby fr: pente therion: point gradient cz: sklon chodby en: passage gradient sk: sklon chodby fr: pente therion: point height:unsigned cz: vÃ½Å¡ka stupnÄ› en: the height of floor step sk: vÃ½Å¡ka stupÅˆa fr: hauteur d'une marche therion: point height:positive cz: vÃ½Å¡ka komÃnu en: chimney height sk: vÃ½Å¡ka komÃnu fr: hauteur d'une cheminée therion: point height:negative cz: hloubka propasti en: pit depth sk: hÄºbka priepasti fr: profondeur therion: line contour cz: vrstevnice en: contour sk: vrstevnica fr: contour therion: line slope cz: svah en: slope sk: Å¡ikmÃ¡ plocha fr: pente therion: line rock-border cz: kameny en: rock border sk: ohraniÄenie kameÅˆov fr: bord d'un rocher therion: line rock-edge cz: hrany kamenÅ¯ en: rock edges sk: hrany kameÅˆov fr: arête d'un rocher therion: point bedrock cz: pevnÃ¡ skÃ¡la en: bedrock sk: pevnÃ¡ skala fr: roche therion: point blocks cz: kamennÃ© bloky en: blocks, breakdown sk: kamennÃ© bloky fr: blocs therion: point debris cz: Å¡tÄ›rk en: debris sk: Å¡trk fr: débris therion: point sand cz: pÃsek en: sand sk: piesok fr: sable therion: point clay cz: jÃl en: clay sk: blato fr: argile therion: point water cz: voda en: water sk: voda fr: eau therion: point ice cz: led en: ice sk: Ä¾ad fr: glace therion: point pebbles cz: valouny en: pebbles sk: okruhliaky fr: galets therion: point raft cz: nÃ¡plav en: raft sk: nÃ¡plav fr: calcite flottante therion: point guano cz: guano en: guano sk: guÃ¡no fr: guano therion: line border:visible cz: ohraniÄenÃ en: border sk: ohraniÄenie fr: bord therion: line border:temporary cz: nestÃ¡lÃ© ohraniÄenÃ en: temporary border sk: nestÃ¡le ohraniÄenie fr: bord, temporaire therion: area water cz: vodnÃ plocha en: water sk: vodnÃ¡ plocha fr: eau therion: area sump cz: sifon en: sump sk: zatopenÃ¡ plocha (sifÃ³n) fr: siphon therion: area debris cz: Å¡tÄ›rk en: debris sk: Å¡trk fr: débris therion: area sand cz: pÃsek en: sand sk: piesok fr: sable therion: point waterflow:permanent cz: vodnÃ tok en: waterflow sk: vodnÃ½ tok therion: point waterflow:intermittent cz: obÄasnÃ½ vodnÃ tok en: intermittent waterflow sk: obÄasnÃ½ vodnÃ½ tok fr: rivière, intermittente therion: point waterflow:paleo cz: paleoÅ™eÄiÅ¡tÄ› en: paleo waterflow sk: paleorieÄisko fr: rivière fossile therion: line waterflow:permanent cz: vodnÃ tok en: waterflow sk: vodnÃ½ tok fr: rivière, permanente therion: line waterflow:intermittent cz: obÄasnÃ½ vodnÃ tok en: intermittent waterflow sk: obÄasnÃ½ vodnÃ½ tok fr: rivière, intermittente therion: line waterflow:conjectural cz: pÅ™edpoklÃ¡danÃ½ vodnÃ tok en: conjectural waterflow sk: predpokladanÃ½ vodnÃ½ tok fr: rivière, conjoncturelle therion: point spring cz: vÃ½vÄ›r en: spring sk: vÃ½ver fr: source therion: point sink cz: ponor en: sink sk: ponor fr: perte therion: point flowstone cz: sintr en: flowstone sk: sinter fr: concrétions therion: line flowstone cz: sintrovÃ© nÃ¡teky en: flowstone sk: sintrovÃ© nÃ¡teky fr: concrétion therion: point moonmilk cz: nickamÃnek en: moonmilk sk: mÃ¤kkÃ½ sinter fr: mondmilch therion: point stalactite cz: stalaktit en: stalactite sk: stalaktit fr: stalactite therion: point stalagmite cz: stalagmit en: stalagmite sk: stalagmit fr: stalagmite therion: point pillar cz: stalagnÃ¡t en: pillar sk: stalagnÃ¡t fr: pillier therion: point curtain cz: sintrovÃ© zÃ¡clony en: curtain sk: sintrovÃ© zÃ¡clony fr: rideau therion: point soda-straw cz: brÄka en: soda straw sk: brÄkÃ¡ fr: fistuleuse therion: point popcorn cz: pizolity en: popcorn sk: pizolity fr: choux-fleur therion: point cave-pearl cz: jeskynnÃ perly en: cave pearl sk: jaskynnÃ© perly fr: perle des cavernes therion: point disk cz: disk en: disk sk: disk fr: disque therion: point helictite cz: heliktit en: helictite sk: helektit fr: excentrique/hélictite therion: point aragonite cz: aragonit en: aragonite sk: aragonit fr: aragonite therion: point crystal cz: krystal en: crystal sk: kryÅ¡tÃ¡l fr: cristaux therion: point wall-calcite cz: vÃ¡pencovÃ½ povlak en: wall calcite sk: vÃ¡pencovÃ½ povlak fr: mur, calcite therion: point gypsum cz: sÃ¡drovec en: gypsum sk: sÃ¡drovec fr: gypse therion: point gypsum-flower cz: sÃ¡drovcovÃ½ kvÄ›t en: gypsum flower sk: sÃ¡drovcovÃ½ kvet fr: fleur de gypse therion: point rimstone-dam cz: sintrovÃ¡ hrÃ¡zka en: rimstone dam sk: sintrovÃ¡ hrÃ¡dza fr: gours therion: point rimstone-pool cz: sintrovÃ© jezÃrko en: rimstone pool sk: sintrovÃ© jazierko fr: gour therion: point anastomosis cz: anastomÃ³za en: anastomosis sk: anastomÃ³za fr: anastomose therion: point karren cz: Å¡krapy en: karren sk: Å¡krapy fr: lapiez therion: point scallop cz: eroznÃ Ãºtvary en: scallop sk: erÃ³zne Ãºtvary fr: vagues d'érosion (coups de gouge) therion: point flute cz: pÃÅ¡Å¥aly en: flute sk: pÃÅ¡Å¥aly fr: flute (?) therion: point raft-cone cz: nÃ¡plavovÃ½ kuÅ¾el en: raft cone sk: nÃ¡plavovÃ½ kuÅ¾eÄ¾ fr: cone therion: point archeo-material cz: archeologickÃ© nÃ¡lezy en: archeo material sk: archeologickÃ© nÃ¡lezy fr: matériel archéo therion: point paleo-material cz: paleontologickÃ© nÃ¡lezy en: paleo material sk: paleontologickÃ© nÃ¡lezy fr: matériel paléo therion: point vegetable-debris cz: zbytky rostlin en: vegetable debris sk: zvyÅ¡ky rastlÃn fr: débris végétaux therion: point root cz: koÅ™eny en: root sk: korene fr: racine therion: point no-equipment cz: nevystrojenÃ© mÃsto en: place without equipement sk: nevystrojenÃ© miesto fr: pas d'équipement therion: point anchor cz: kotvenÃ en: anchor sk: kotvenie fr: ancrage therion: point rope cz: lano en: rope sk: lano fr: corde therion: point rope-ladder cz: lanovÃ½ Å¾ebÅ™Ãk en: rope ladder sk: lanovÃ½ rebrÃk fr: échelle de corde therion: point fixed-ladder cz: pevnÃ½ Å¾ebÅ™Ãk en: fixed ladder sk: fixnÃ½ rebrÃk fr: échelle fixe therion: point steps cz: schody en: steps sk: schody fr: marches therion: point traverse cz: traverz en: traverse sk: traverz fr: traversée therion: point bridge cz: most en: bridge sk: most fr: pont therion: point camp cz: bivak en: camp sk: bivak fr: camp therion: title legend cz: Legenda en: Legend sk: Legenda fr: Légende therion: title cave length cz: DÃ©lka en: Length sk: DÄºÅ¾ka fr: Longueur therion: units m cz: m en: m sk: m fr: m therion: title cave depth cz: PÅ™evÃ½Å¡enÃ en: Depth sk: PrevÃ½Å¡enie fr: Profondeur therion: title explo (plural) cz: Objevili en: Explored by sk: Objavili fr: Explorateurs therion: title explo cz: Objevil en: Explored by sk: Objavil fr: Explorateur therion: title topo (plural) cz: MÄ›Å™ili en: Surveyed by sk: Zamerali fr: Topographes therion: title topo cz: MÄ›Å™il en: Surveyed by sk: Zameral fr: Topographe therion: title carto (plural) cz: Kreslili en: Drawn by sk: Kreslili fr: Dessinateurs therion: title carto cz: Kreslil en: Drawn by sk: Kreslil fr: Dessinateur therion: title preview above cz: [NÃ¡hled hornÃch vrstev] en: [Preview above] sk: [NÃ¡hÄ¾ad hornÃ½ch vrstiev] fr: [Prévisualisation au-dessus] therion: title preview below cz: [NÃ¡hled dolnÃch vrstev] en: [Preview below] sk: [NÃ¡hÄ¾ad spodnÃ½ch vrstiev] fr: [Prévisualisation au-dessous]

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Wook's persistent Therion bug
by Wookey 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

I spent some hours last week (whilst in a cottage in wales), trying to track down the problem I have with Therion not liking my data any more. Here is what I discovered, which I hope will give you a clue, or suggest some more tests for me to do because I am out of ideas. In summary the problem exists in 0.2.19 and 0.3.1 so it's not a feature of the new version as I first thought. And as 0.2.19 _used_ to work then ewither it's a bug in underlying libraries or my data/environment has changed in some way. All the gdb testing has been done in 0.3.1. There are two bugs: 'invalid command context' on the first 'end*' command and a segfault if I use 'end centreline' instead of 'endcentreline'. I have found the function the segfault occurs in but no more. And the 'invalid command context' thing has been tracked down to the 'wrong' context value (NONE, SURVEY, SCRAP) being set when the endcommand happens, but I don't understand what this context is or enough about C++ to know how it might go wrong. The reading of the data seems to be OK so far as I can tell from using GDB. Here are my notes giving the details of what I did: debugging therion soundriver problem 2004.06.17 soundriver.th gives 'invalid command context' with v0.2.19 and 0.3.1 at first 'end' command (endmap, endcenterline). If I change endcenterline to 'end centerline' then I get a segfault instead. The top of the file looks like: encoding utf-8 # map elevator -title "Terikan River Cave: Elevator Entrance" # farside@river # farside2@river # endmap #connections # join farside@river farside2@river join farsidewest1@river farsidewest2@river join fsceil1@river:0 farsidewest3@river:7 centerline equate 17@evening 53@river equate 24@evening 1@river #*equate 4@river2 6@evening ; was it stn 6 cairn? closure suggests not equate 1@rifticious 2@evening equate 5@rifticious 12@evening equate 1@pooh 50@river equate 22@rifticious 1@rifticious2 equate 10@penthouse 27@river end centerline Backtracing with gdb produces: reading input -- soundriver.th open file -- soundriver.th Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 0x0806fe92 in thsurvey::get_decdef (this=0x0) at thsurvey.h:239 239 bool get_decdef() { return this->decdef; } the backtrace looks like this: (gdb) bt #0 0x0806fe92 in thsurvey::get_decdef (this=0x0) at thsurvey.h:239 #1 0x0806f5a2 in thdata::set_survey_declination (this=0x819da20) at thdata.cxx:1996 #2 0x0806c605 in thdata::insert_data_leg (this=0x819da20, nargs=2, args=0x8195798) at thdata.cxx:1370 #3 0x080676d6 in thdata::set (this=0x819da20, cod={id = 0, nargs = 1}, args=0xbffffa60, argenc=6, indataline=1) at thdata.cxx:223 #4 0x08063c16 in thdatareader::read (this=0x818b420, ifname=0x8197b70 "soundriver.th", spath=0x819b6a0 "/home/wookey/.therion:/usr/share/therion:/usr/local/share/therion", dbptr=0x818b200) at thdatareader.cxx:119 #5 0x0810c1ef in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffb34) at therion.cxx:254 (gdb) Now I changed the file to this: encoding utf-8 map elevator -title "Terikan River Cave: Elevator Entrance" farside@river farside2@river endmap #connections # join farside@river farside2@river join farsidewest1@river farsidewest2@river join fsceil1@river:0 farsidewest3@river:7 centerline equate 17@evening 53@river equate 24@evening 1@river #*equate 4@river2 6@evening ; was it stn 6 cairn? closure suggests not equate 1@rifticious 2@evening equate 5@rifticious 12@evening equate 1@pooh 50@river equate 22@rifticious 1@rifticious2 equate 10@penthouse 27@river endcenterline stepping through to find out why 'invalid command context occurs on 'endmap' we find that 'endmap' matches at thdatareader::read line 87 and then barf happens at line 91 dbptr->insert(objptr); because in thdatabase::insert, line 159 if ((optr->get_context() & this->ccontext) == 0) (gdb) print optr->get_context() $2 = 2 -i.e THCTX_SURVEY (gdb) print this->ccontext $3 = 1 i.e THCTX_NONE (gdb) print (optr->get_context() & this->ccontext) $4 = 0 so we get "invalid command context". I don't really understand what this context stuff is about but maybe this will be a clue. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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new user ....
by Eric Madelaine 21 Jun '04

21 Jun '04

Hi, I'm Eric Madelaine, caver from the Nice area, in france. I have been fiddling with survey softwares for a while (25 years? ), even building one myself years ago (never get outside my club, but this was in the glorious years of Multics and PL1... distribution was not like it is now (;-)) I have been experimenting with therion for a couple weeks now, and i am really pleased with the results I already have. The concept of morphing vectorial drawings on the survey is of course the best we can imagine today, and the way that therion authors have integrated that in a specific survey tool in such a short time is impressive. A lot left to do yet in terms of 3D modelling, and certainly for getting the software accessible for non-computer people of course (;-) I have a number of questions, starting with things I ran into during my first tries( therion version 0.3.1 on Windows XP), for which I have not found the answer neither in the therin book, nor in wookey's tutorial paper. - How do you get a map (simple plan) with only the centerline, when you have not yet drawn, or scanned, the scraps ? - I have not been able to generate a correct extended elevation, it comes completely distorted. Is it supposed to work? (i've not found any example of elevation maps with the distribution) - I'd like to get a series of cross sections drawn on the side of a map page (or an atlas page), with only the cross-section lines drawn on the principal plan or elevation. Is there a simple way to do that ? It's rather difficult to attach those section points to a given scrap, that could be very far on the map... For more long term things: - Is there any plan, or any contact taken, for a french translation? If not, and if you think that internationalisation could be easy enough in the current version of the code, I could find the time to help you for that... - I have no clue on how the 3D models are generated, but I'm impressed of what you get from a single plan. I understand how you can guess proportionnal heights from the plan. I also have played with passage-heigth point specs (with correct results for tube-like passages, but much less success for rooms...) Do you have any plans/ideas to use cross-section information when available? to use both plan and elevation information when you have both ? or may be to use just LRUD data if you have nothing else ? Eric.

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problem with 0.3.1
by Wookey 01 Jun '04

01 Jun '04

I've upgraded to 0.3.0/0.3.1 and it does indeed fix the 'extra newline problem' which is great but it won't compile my dataset that was working OK with 0.2.19. I get: "Invalid command context" at line 6 in this file: 1 encoding utf-8 2 survey soundriver 3 4 map elevator -title "Terikan: Elevator Entrance" 5 farside@river 6 farside2@river 7 endmap 8 ....<lots more data>.... Why might that happen? 0.3.0 is now current in Debian. I'd like to fix this problem before uploading 0.3.1. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

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Survex vs Therion
by Olly Betts 28 Apr '04

28 Apr '04

On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 11:31:49AM +0100, Wookey wrote: >> It would probably help things like this a lot if you were able to monitor >> the Therion list Wookey forwarded me some recent messages. I'm now subscribed (well, it says I am - nothing has arrived yet). >> This seems like a retrograde step. If survex is not doing quite what you >> want then fixing survex ought to be a better plan. We need better >> Therion/survex cooperation. I must get Olly to start reading this list. It would be better to try to coordinate what we're up to to prevent duplicating work, or worse working against each other. I did actually try to start to encourage a bit of cooperation a while ago - in particular regarding the details of therion's "charset" command which Survex could usefully implement. But I didn't get a useful response... >>> > Oh yes, I meant to ask about that - why have you moved the loop closure >>> > inside Therion (out of survex) > >> >> Well, there were some good reasons to do it: >> >> - installation is simpler now >> - there were some problems with survex' msg files -- if msg >> file was missing, cavern didn't start at all; >> if cavern used the file, we had problems with parsing >> the translated log file for information about centreline >> (e.g. E-W range) Survex programs don't have any version of the messages compiled in, save for a handful of messages needed to report errors in loading the messages (unlike programs using GNU gettext which always compiles in all the English messages). The survex message code actually predates GNU gettext. It's much more frugal on memory, so I'm reluctant to chuck it away - on PDAs this still genuinely matters. Anyway, the upshot is that cavern simply *can't* run without the message files - it couldn't output anything! But if you just want to hide cavern inside therion, it wouldn't be hard to compile in messages. You could even have your own set of "translations" providing easy to machine parse output for E-W range, etc. The pieces needed to provide a mechanism to compile in a single translation are already mostly there. >> - we had somehow to parse err file to get information about >> loop errors (this will go to SQL export; bad loops may be >> highlighted in the map...) Again, it would be pretty easy to add code to allow a custom-built cavern to output error statistics in whatever format you desire. >>> > This seems like a retrograde step. If survex is not doing quite what you >>> > want then fixing survex ought to be a better plan. We need better >>> > Therion/survex cooperation. I must get Olly to start reading this list. > >> >> We waited for cavern-library (promised in the SPUD to-do for more than 2 >> years) and would be happy to use it. In Therion everything is prepared to >> link such a library. Nobody's mentioned to me that they're waiting for loop closure to become a library. I've got a list of things to do, and I have to decide on a sensible order. So far, making loop closure a library has been well down the list because there are other items which will do more to improve the user's "survex experience". If the code would be useful, perhaps this should be higher priority... >>> >Oh yes, I meant to ask about that - why have you moved the loop closure >>> >inside Therion (out of survex) and not even accepted the covariance numbers >>> >(even if not processing them)? > >> >> First of all - we have an experience, that allowing users to specify too >> many things (that are not processed) is quite misleading. Therefore we have >> decided to strictly remove all the stuff, that is not used and will not be >> used in the next major version (user can use comments in any case). Changing these fields to comments would require the user to edit the file though. And then remember to change it back. >> Here I have some doubts. Do you know anybody, who has ever inserted these >> covariances in reality ??? As far as I understand the process of GPS - >> these variance/covariances strongly depend on current positions of >> satelites and local landscape. Therefore I do not believe, that you're able >> to read somewhere variances/covariances that make a lot of sense. http://www.hartrao.ac.za/geodesy/gps.html (Search for "covariance"). A consumer grade GPS probably won't report them (some report DOP I think). Survey grade units will though, and since the loop closure algorithm can make use of the information, it's a shame not to be able to specify it when you have it. >> 3. I've been missing one thing in survex - and this is the system of real >> closed loops with minimal number of shots. When we've closed a large loop >> in the cave, I was not able to read from err-files the real error on this >> loop. All I was able to get was survex error correction on some segments of >> it - but this is only a partial and not interpretable number, that depends >> on loop closure algorithm. Sadly the idea of loop closure statistics for "complete loops" seems obvious but isn't really very meaningful. The closure is done on those segments, and to report information for "complete loops", you have to combine those segments in some arbitrary way. And by combining them you lose information - in particular large errors which indicate possible blunders will be less obvious. "Minimal number of shots" seems particularly arbitrary. "Minimum length" seems a bit more justifiable. But either is going to prefer to pick out the survey loop around the walls of the chamber near the entrance rather than your magnificent new closure involving several kms of survey. The most sensible approach is to display the information graphically. Then where the "complete loops" are is no longer an issue. And if you want to know the closure on a particular loop, you can highlight it with the mouse and ask. Cheers, Olly

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