- Therion - speleo.sk

Grid coord label placement problems
by Jenny Black 30 Sep '15

30 Sep '15

Hi, I've been having some problems getting grid labels to appear how I want around my survey. I've put some examples on my ftp site so you can see what I mean. The files mentioned below can all be found: ftp://ftp.gns.cri.nz/incoming/JennyB/therion/ . To add a grid and some coordinate labels, I added: grid bottom grid-coords border to my thconfig file. The grid itself is plotted as I expect, but the coordinates are not quite how I would like them. I've played around a bit and there appear to be two problems (neither of which I know how to fix!): 1. the coordinates don't exactly appear on the border - they seem to be plotted on the crosshair point that is closest to, but outside of, the survey. The pdf output isn't extended to included these. Sometimes this is OK, because the legend is outside of the survey area so these numbers are visible (2004-01-plan.pdf). Other times, the numbers are either not visible at all, or clipped (e.g. 2004-01-plan-original.pdf - the number on the East and West axes are clipped, those on the North axis are completely off the page, and those on the South axis are sufficiently far from the survey they interfere with the legend). Whilst I can work around this by use of grid-size and with placing objects like the legend in suitable places (e.g. 2004-01-plan.pdf), this isn't going to look as nice, especially for: 107-plan.pdf, where you currently don't see numbers on any axis except the west, and then only the final two digits. - Is there a way to extend the output page to include these coordinates so that they aren't clipped (as happens automatically for the map and legend)? - Is it possible to plot the numbers on the edge of the survey rather than the nearest crosshair point? - can I specify which axes they appear on (e.g. I'd like to see them on the South and West, but not North and East) 2. The coordinates are plotted in the form: (x,y) along each axis, I'd like to only show the x coordinates on the x axis, and the y coordinates on the y axis (with no brackets or comma). Is this customisable in the thconfig file? I can't see anything in the thbook or mailing lists about how to solve these problems, but I'm sure other people have had them too, and I'm missing something, I just don't know what! I get the same output on windows 7 with therion 5.3.15 and linux with therion 5.3.16. I hope that I have explained this clearly enough, but please let me know if not. Thanks, Jenny

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Error - cant figure it out
by Rob Countess 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

So I get an error when I try to compile this cave. I just added a new survey. A few stations were missing. It all compiled properly. When I added the stations I get this error output. If I comment out survey legs 72-73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80 then everything compiles properly. Output and th file follow. Rob therion 5.3.16 initialization file: /usr/local/etc/therion.ini reading ... done configuration file: thconfig.thconfig reading ... done reading source files ... done preprocessing database ... done output coordinate system: UTM9 meridian convergence (deg): -1.6174 geomag declinations (deg): 1982.1.1 23.0300 1983.1.1 22.9182 1984.1.1 22.8065 1985.1.1 22.6947 1986.1.1 22.5800 1987.1.1 22.4652 1988.1.1 22.3504 1989.1.1 22.2355 1990.1.1 22.1205 1991.1.1 21.9916 1992.1.1 21.8627 1993.1.1 21.7339 1994.1.1 21.6052 1995.1.1 21.4765 1996.1.1 21.3119 1997.1.1 21.1472 1998.1.1 20.9827 1999.1.1 20.8181 2000.1.1 20.6535 2001.1.1 20.4500 2002.1.1 20.2465 2003.1.1 20.0430 2004.1.1 19.8394 2005.1.1 19.6359 2006.1.1 19.4264 2007.1.1 19.2167 2008.1.1 19.0069 2009.1.1 18.7970 2010.1.1 18.5869 2011.1.1 18.3842 2012.1.1 18.1812 2013.1.1 17.9779 2014.1.1 17.7744 2015.1.1 17.5706 2016.1.1 17.3972 scanning centreline tree ... done searching for centerline loops ... done calculating station coordinates ... done average loop error: 0.41% calculating basic statistics ... done processing extended elevation ... done processing references ... done selecting export objects ... done processing projection plan ... done writing Resonance.xvi ... done writing ResonancePlan.pdf ... ####################### metapost log file ######################## This is MetaPost, version 1.902 (TeX Live 2014) (kpathsea version 6.2.0) 28 SEP 2015 22:40 **data.mp (/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/metapost/base/mpost.mp (/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/metapost/base/plain.mp Preloading the plain mem file, version 1.005) ) (./data.mp [4001] [4002] [4003] [4004] [4005] [4006] [4007] [4008] [4009] [4010] [4011] [4012] ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6213 ...e(((602.97,-3964.48) -- (607.41,-4140.07 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6223 l_survey_cave(((607.41,-4140.07 ) -- (534.29,-4105.11))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6223 ...e(((607.41,-4140.07) -- (534.29,-4105.11 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6228 l_survey_cave(((607.41,-4140.07 ) -- (602.97,-3964.48))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6233 l_survey_cave(((534.29,-4105.11 ) -- (527.64,-4072.27))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6238 l_survey_cave(((534.29,-4105.11 ) -- (607.41,-4140.07))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6238 ...e(((534.29,-4105.11) -- (607.41,-4140.07 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6248 ...e(((527.64,-4072.27) -- (534.29,-4105.11 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07 ),1,0,""); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4140.07). p_station->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); if(EXPR1)=4:p_station_fixed((EXPR0))el... l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4140.07). p_station_temporary->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); pickup.PenD;p:=(-0.2u,0)--(0... p_station->...XPR1)=1:p_station_temporary((EXPR0)) fi;path.path_cave;path_cav... l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.8601 p_station((534.29,-4105.11 ),1,0,""); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4105.11). p_station->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); if(EXPR1)=4:p_station_fixed((EXPR0))el... l.8601 p_station((534.29,-4105.11),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4105.11). p_station_temporary->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); pickup.PenD;p:=(-0.2u,0)--(0... p_station->...XPR1)=1:p_station_temporary((EXPR0)) fi;path.path_cave;path_cav... l.8601 p_station((534.29,-4105.11),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) [1] ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.9419 ...ar53 \mainfont{} etex, (607.41, -4140.07 ), 0.0, 7); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.9421 ...ar54 \mainfont{} etex, (534.29, -4105.11 ), 0.0, 7); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) [2] [3] (./mptextmp.mp) [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] ) Here is how much of MetaPost's memory you used: 31576 strings using 1002058 characters 3154088 bytes of node memory 1401 symbolic tokens 8i,81n,16p,233b,5f stack positions out of 16i,96n,20p,250b,6f 26 output files written: data.1 .. data.4012 #################### end of metapost log file #################### therion: error -- metapost exit code -- 512 writing xtherion file ... done ================================================================== Here is the data file ======================================================== survey FarSide2 -title "FarSide2" centerline cs UTM9 data normal from to length compass clino date 2015.09.15 team "Peter Curtis" team "Alisa Vanderberg" team "Kevin Huntington" 40 41 29.1 0 -90 41 42 12.5 028 -27 42 43 14.4 355 -17 43 44 13.7 234 9 44 45 13.8 177 32 45 46 5.63 228 22 46 47 9.3 212 -6 47 48 4.6 218 47 48 49 3.6 196 2 43 50 3.9 089 -12 50 51 1.8 36 19 51 52 10.2 094 -16 52 53 1.51 183 2 53 54 9.3 249 11 53 55 8.1 084 -7 55 56 8.75 152 2 56 57 9.65 16 -1 57 58 3.62 9 -52 58 59 3.46 341 -53 59 60 4.86 322 -7 60 61 4.34 009 -2 61 62 12.19 334 -9 62 63 4.07 264 11 63 64 4.48 248 4 64 65 2.59 267 13 65 66 6 304 7 66 67 5 284 2 67 68 9.83 039 -24 68 69 1.8 3 4 62 70 10.91 330 4 69 71 4.93 338 -11 71 72 2.57 58 -16 72 73 5.0 339 -27 73 74 4.43 34 -4 74 75 4.44 088 -24 75 76 9.1 121 -43 76 77 13.4 63 -27 77 78 6.79 99 -57 78 79 10.35 096 -72 79 80 8.2 93 -17 endcenterline endsurvey

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Best caving tablet
by Rob Countess 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

I posted this on cave chat.org but no replies: So I'm awaiting shipment of my DistoX2. I've never used one before. I am trying to figure out what the best tablet is to use with it. I am using Therion but I am new to that as well. I used to use Walls and before that On Station. I have zero experience with paperless cave surveying. I have never used Pocketopo or Topodroid which makes it hard to decide between windows or android. Topodroid seems to be set up well for use with Therion, but again I have no idea; I've never used an android device only iPhone and iPad. I see the new ipad pro has a stylus - are there cave survey/disto apps that run on iPad? A new windows surface pro3 tablet seems like a good idea but are there good waterproof cases? Xperia Z4 tablet claims IP68 - can it handle a cave without a case? I can't seem to find any suitable rugged cases for it. If price was not a factor what set up would you use? Thanks

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Re: [Therion] Coloring on a altitude basis
by Bruce Mutton 28 Sep '15

28 Sep '15

I don't have a specific solution for you, except to say that I adjusted my expectations in this regard early in my Therion career. I also like to match plan and elevation colours. I am always conscious when drawing plan and elevation scraps of any slight changes in elevation. When there is a change, I start a new scrap. I found it quite easy to adjust to this way of working, although it probably helps to have multiple monitors (as with any drawing package). There is not a precise match between plan and elevation but I have learned to accept it. Short scraps have other advantages if you ever need to rearrange map configurations in the future.Bruce Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: Marco Menchise <marco.menchise(a)gmail.com> Date: 28/09/2015 12:54 (GMT+05:45) To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] Coloring on a altitude basis Hello, I searched in the archives and I didn't find an answer. I like to make plan and extended sections colored by altitude because this is a way to add a "3rd dimension" to a plan drawing. I also like to have the same color in the same cave region either in plan and extended section. This way makes very easy to identify same portions of a cave in both projections. Because Therion colors on scrap basis, I'm forced to draw plan and extended section using the same scrap subdivision. This is a very complex operation and it's not always simple to have the same scrap structure in both projections. Is there a way or a trick to color by altitude, maybe defining an "altitude step" to change colors? Thanks,Marco

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Coloring on a altitude basis
by Marco Menchise 28 Sep '15

28 Sep '15

Hello, I searched in the archives and I didn't find an answer. I like to make plan and extended sections colored by altitude because this is a way to add a "3rd dimension" to a plan drawing. I also like to have the same color in the same cave region either in plan and extended section. This way makes very easy to identify same portions of a cave in both projections. Because Therion colors on scrap basis, I'm forced to draw plan and extended section using the same scrap subdivision. This is a very complex operation and it's not always simple to have the same scrap structure in both projections. Is there a way or a trick to color by altitude, maybe defining an "altitude step" to change colors? Thanks, Marco

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GPS app for android
by Rob Countess 27 Sep '15

27 Sep '15

So I ended up with a Samsung galaxy S5 Active. Can anyone recommend a good app for android that does GPS averaging to get accurate fixes on cave entrances? Other good GPS apps useful for cave stuff? I thought i saw something on this listserv but my searched came up empty. I'm looking forward to testing out my set up. Thanks, Rob

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Re: [Therion] GPS app for android
by Bruce Mutton 27 Sep '15

27 Sep '15

Yes I bought a pack of 10 from gadget geek. Co.nz Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: Rob Countess <rob.countess(a)gmail.com> Date: 27/09/2015 06:46 (GMT+05:45) To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: Re: [Therion] GPS app for android Thanks Martin, I'm trying it out. Bruce, are you using a stylus with you galaxy s5? can you recommend one? Rob On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Martin Sluka <martinsluka(a)mac.com> wrote: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gr.stasta.mobiletopographer developer: http://www.stgrdev.com there is free and pro version Your mobile Topographer! *** Increase GPS accuracy using: - Weighted averaging (on every axis). - Map calibration. - Device calibration on map, or on a know point.*** Display and convert GPS geodetic to Cartesian EN coordinates and back: - UTM. - Europe ETRS89/UTMZ28-38. - Hellas HGRS 87 (EGSA 87). - Hellas HTRS07/TM07. - Iceland ISN93/Lambert 93. - Morroco Merchich. - SPCS83 (124 zones) USA. - Romania S-42(58)/Stereo 70. - Lebanon & Syria Deir ez Zor/Stereo. - Croatia HTRS96/TM. - Serbia SRB-ETRS89/UTM, SRB-MGI/Z7. - Australia MGA94 (GDA94), AMG66 (AGD66) National, A.C.T., Northern Territory, NSW & Victoria, Tasmania,AMG84 (AGD84). - Former FR of Yugoslavia MGI Balkans zones 5,6 & 7. - Italy Monte Mario West Zone 1 Peninsular, West Zone 1 Sardinia, East Zone 2 Peninsular, East Zone 2 Sicily. - Costa Rica CΜ05/CRTM05, Ocotepeque 1935 Costa Rica Norte & Ocotepeque 1935 Costa Rica Sur. - Cyprus CGRS-93-LTM. - Hungary HD72/EOV. - Kosovo KosovaREF01. - Latvia LKS92/TM. - Lithuania LKS94/TM. - Spain ED50/UTMZ29-30 NW, ED50/UTMZ29-31 ML & ED50/UTMZ31 BA. - Uk's OSTN02/OSGM02. - Turkey ED50/Gauss-Kruger 3° Z9-15, ITRF96 & ED50/UTMZ35-38. - Luxembourg LUREF. - Venezuala REGVEN/Z18-20. - Sweden SWEREF99 TM. - Argentina POSGAR 94 & POSGAR 2007. - India Kalianpur 1975 ZI - ZIV. - Algeria Nord Sahara 1959 / Z29-32. - Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Russia - Kaliningrad and Kazakhstan Pulkovo 1942/ CS63 (A)Z1-4, (C)Z0-2, (K)Z2-4. - Central and South America SIRGAS 2000. - Nigeria and Cameroon Minna 1996 & 2008 MTM West, Mid, East Belts & UTM Z31-33. - Bangladesh Gulshan 303/TM. - France RGF93/CC42-50. - Canada CSRS - Egypt 1907 Blue, Red, Purple, Extended Purple belts. - Portugal ETRS89/PTM06. - Netherlands Amersfoort/RD new. - Qatar QND95. - Colombia MAGNA-SIRGAS Far West, West, Bogota, Central East, East zones. - Mexico ITRF 2008/LCC. - Madagascar Tananariva (Paris)/Laborde & Tananariva/UTM Z38-39S . - Tunisia Carthage (Paris)/Mining Grid, Carthage/Nord, Carthage/Sud, Carthage/TM 11 NE, Carthage/UTM zone 32N.*** Auto stop for accurate positioning.*** Examine the satellites above you in a sky view.*** Signal strength and number of satellites indication for each GNSS constellation individually.*** Multiple units support: - Meters, - International feet, - US survey feet.***Height calculation: - Ellipsoidal height. - EGM96 orthometric height calculation.*** Convert from geodetic to Cartesian coordinates and back: - Support for device measured points, or - Manually input of geodetic or Cartesian coords.*** Drive me: - Key in coordinates of the target point in either geodetic or Cartesian coordinates, or select a point from the list and follow the pointer. - Compass indicating both magnetic and true North.*** Project on Map: - Project individual points on any map application. - Project list of points, and the defined polygon, on embedded maps.*** Save multiple point lists, to use them later. *** Calculate area.*** Export point lists το: - .txt (text file) - .csv (point file - comma separated) - .kml (google earth file) - .gpx (Gps Exchange format) - .dxf (drawing file)*** Send file via e-mail, or upload it to cloud.*** Complete help text support. 26. 9. 2015 v 23:15, Rob Countess <rob.countess(a)gmail.com>: So I ended up with a Samsung galaxy S5 Active. Can anyone recommend a good app for android that does GPS averaging to get accurate fixes on cave entrances? Other good GPS apps useful for cave stuff? I thought i saw something on this listserv but my searched came up empty. I'm looking forward to testing out my set up. Thanks, Rob _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion(a)speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion(a)speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

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Re: [Therion] GPS app for android
by Bruce Mutton 27 Sep '15

27 Sep '15

I have an S5 (not active) as well. Have been using Backcountry Navigator too gps pro on the recommendation of a friend. About $15 I think and there is a free version.Maybe not as comprehensive as what Martin suggested. I am new to devices like S5 and to gps software and it took me quite a while to figure it out and make it useful.Am using it intensively while travelling with a view to using it for caving eventually.Offline maps are good but limitation of 4GB per map folder for maps that can be 'managed' is a pain. (It can handle unlimited map sizes but ability to manage an move them on and off device is not available with those storage methods).GPS is I think quite good . Often claims 3m although repeated fixes over multiple days give way points and trails within a 10mm to 20m band. Has a few annoying characteristics but the author is responsive and fixes things that break with updates. I am invested in many gb of data and time so not keen on changing but would if someone can confirm other package is much better for cave mapping and prospecting.Bruce Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: Rob Countess <rob.countess(a)gmail.com> Date: 27/09/2015 03:00 (GMT+05:45) To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] GPS app for android So I ended up with a Samsung galaxy S5 Active. Can anyone recommend a good app for android that does GPS averaging to get accurate fixes on cave entrances? Other good GPS apps useful for cave stuff? I thought i saw something on this listserv but my searched came up empty. I'm looking forward to testing out my set up. Thanks, Rob

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metapost help - line Blocks
by Andrew Atkinson 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

I think this started life at the AUT line symbol for Blocks. My metapost is at the stage where I can just about edit it to get small changesm but that is about it. With the AUT symbol you got blocks at funny angle when going round a tight curve, I think this was because it took it angle from the start of the place that it was drawing the block, so I added the st variable as well as reducing the randomness of the angle. I also increased the length of the blocks, plus added an extra point on the block and added a bit of space between. All well and good, but now occasionally, probably about 1/4 of the time, the last block in a line is drawn on top of the second last block in a line then a space the size of the last bock is left. No idea why this should be controlled by position t which is the same as the rest of the blocks that work fine. If anyone could help solve this I would be most greatful, trying to print the survey for HE in 5 days time, so printing needs to be sent off asap thanks Andrew def l_wall_blocks_CHED (expr P) = T:=identity; pickup PenC; laenge := arclength P; path block; path old_block; cur := 0; #draw first block old_block := punked (( (.65u,-.15u)--(.72u,0.05u)--(.55u,.15u)--(.23u,.17u)--(.0u,.03u)--(.05u,-.1u))randomized (0.1u)) scaled (uniformdeviate(0.3)+.65); block_width := (xpart urcorner old_block - xpart ulcorner old_block); t:= arctime (cur+block_width/2) of P; old_block:=old_block rotated angle( direction t of P) shifted point 0 of P; thclean (old_block--cycle); thdraw old_block; cur := cur + block_width + 0.04u; forever: # generate random block block := punked ( ((.65u,-.15u)--(.72u,0.05u)--(.55u,.15u)--(.2u,.17u)--(.0u,.03u)--(.05u,-.1u) ) randomized (0.1u) ) scaled (uniformdeviate(0.3)+.65) rotated (uniformdeviate(20)-10); # check width of block block_width := (xpart urcorner block - xpart ulcorner block); exitif cur > (laenge- 3*block_width/2); # find next position where the block fits in without intersecting the previous one forever: exitif xpart ( ((block--cycle) rotated angle(direction t of P) shifted point t of P) intersectiontimes old_block) < 0; cur:=cur+0.01u; t:= arctime cur of P; st:= arctime (cur+block_width/2) of P; exitif cur > (laenge- 3*block_width/2); endfor; exitif cur > (laenge- 3*block_width/2); old_block:= block rotated angle(direction st of P) shifted point t of P; thclean (old_block--cycle); thdraw old_block; cur := cur + block_width + 0.04u; endfor; # generate last block block := (((.65u,-.15u)--(.72u,0.05u)--(.55u,.15u)--(.2u,.17u)--(.0u,.03u)--(.05u,-.1u)) ); block_width := (xpart urcorner block - xpart ulcorner block); # scale last block to fit in the remaining gap scale_factor:=(laenge-cur)/block_width; t:= arctime cur of P; st:= arctime (laenge+cur)/2 of P; forever: exitif scale_factor < 0; exitif xpart ( ( (block) rotated angle (direction st of P) scaled scale_factor shifted (point t of P) ) intersectiontimes old_block) < 0; scale_factor:=scale_factor-0.001; endfor; if scale_factor > 0: thclean (block--cycle) rotated angle (direction st of P) scaled scale_factor shifted (point t of P); thdraw (block) rotated angle (direction st of P) scaled scale_factor shifted (point t of P); fi; enddef; initsymbol ("l_wall_blocks_CHED");

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Can't Open Cavern Log File For Input
by Nick Bairstow 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

I have one Win 7 PC which gives me the above warning on compile. I have survex installed. Same data on portable drive woks fine on all other machines. Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.

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