- Therion - speleo.sk

Re: [Therion] Revisiting Breaking extended elevations on specific stations
by Marco Corvi 23 Jul '20

23 Jul '20

i realized i was too naive: the "principle" of the spanning tree is ok, but it is not enough. suppose to have five legs at a station 6-7 7-8 20-7 7-21 7-45 and some of them belongs to loop(s). Suppose that the user wants to have 6-7 7-8 together, and 20-7 7-21 together but the two pairs separated, because of the way loops get extended. and 7-45 attached to 6-7 7-8 at station 7. the abstract picture i came up with was to replace a crossway station, like "7" in the above example, with a complete graph (for 3-leg crossway this is trivial) to make the story short i think therion syntax needs a way to specify that 6-7 7-8 and 7-45 share station "7" in the extended elevation and 20-7 7-21 share a separate station "7". marco

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Re: [Therion] Revisiting Breaking extended elevations on specific stations
by Tarquin Wilton-Jones 16 Jul '20

16 Jul '20

> extend ignore 8 7 11 > extend ignore 6 7 12 > > should save the situation. Am I missing something? This is basically what I also thought; you need to supply three stations to control it. I was going to suggest the opposite notation: extend prefer 8 7 12 meaning "to get to 12, prefer to start from the 8-7 leg". But either preferring one triplet, or preventing the other, should work. So I would be just as happy with your suggestion. Either of these would also solve the "extend stop" problem at the same time.

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Re: [Therion] Revisiting Breaking extended elevations on specific stations
by Stacho Mudrak 16 Jul '20

16 Jul '20

Thanks Marco and others for pointing these problems out. So I have another suggestion. Not to implement extend stop, equate, but add the possibility of 3 stations in extend ignore. I.e. extend ignore <s1> <s2> <s3> would mean, do not go to s3 if you came to s2 from s1. In your case Tarquin, specifying extend ignore 8 7 11 extend ignore 6 7 12 should save the situation. Am I still missing something? S. On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 23:15, Stacho Mudrak <stacho.mudrak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Marco, Tarquin for pointing this out. > > So I have another suggestion. Not to implement extend stop, but add the > possibility of 3 stations in extend ignore. > > extend ignore <s1> <s2> <s3> > > would mean, do not go to s3 if you came to s2 from s1. In your case > Tarquin, specifying > > extend ignore 8 7 11 > extend ignore 6 7 12 > > should save the situation. Am I missing something? > > S. > > On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 22:40, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion < > therion(a)speleo.sk> wrote: > >> > Something important I had not considered. I wonder what it does to >> tarquin's example. >> >> I don't even begin to know how to cope with the situation where there is >> a separate branch from 7 to 12 in my example, where you want >> 2-10-9-8-7-12 to be shown as one branch in the extended elevation, and >> 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-11 in the other branch, with two station 7s. >> >> At that point, I think the only way to cope with it is to say: >> >> 7 7a 0 0 0 >> 7a 8 1 2 3 >> ... >> 7a 12 1 2 3 >> extend ignore 7-7a >> >> Manipulate the data to add an extra station, allowing a break. >> >> I also don't think this discussion of "extend stop 8 7" can cope with it >> either. >> >> I sense a large spanner in the works... >> >> >> Tarquin >> _______________________________________________ >> Therion mailing list >> Therion(a)speleo.sk >> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion >> >

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Re: [Therion] Revisiting Breaking extended elevations on specific stations
by Marco Corvi 16 Jul '20

16 Jul '20

last weekend i completed the survey of a cave with some parallel close pits connected through several "windows". the last survey joined the previous surveys at seven stations. needless to say, i was not able to tell therion how to break the centerline for the extended elevation. Eventually i removed a few "equates" (the loops closed quite well anyways) extended elevation requires a spanning tree of the centerline graph. "extend" is meant to tell therion how to break loops "removing" edges/legs. I suspect that this semantics of "extend stop" is not sufficient because if the user moves the data around (which is acceptable because in therion data can be reordered) the result could be different. I believe that we need a way the user tell therion how to construct the spanning tree without ambiguities. The only solution i can see is telling which edge to remove. The drawback is that each station appears only once (at one node) in the tree, and there cannot be two stations "7" as in Tarquin's problem. back to the problem i experienced: what about an option to "equate" to tell therion that it must not be used for the extended elevation ? marco

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Revisiting Breaking extended elevations on specific stations
by Tarquin Wilton-Jones 16 Jul '20

16 Jul '20

Hi all, I have a puzzle that comes from my old puzzle: https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/breakingextend 1 2 1 0 -10 2 3 1 0 -10 3 4 1 45 -10 4 5 1 45 -10 5 6 1 45 -10 6 7 1 90 -10 7 8 1.71 225 60 8 9 1 225 10 9 10 1 225 10 10 2 1.8 225 -32.2 7 11 1 90 -10 Imagine you want to break the loop at station 7, so that Therion shows 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-11 as a single line, then 2-10-9-8-7 as a branch off it. The break should be at the end of the branch: 10-9-8-7 / 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-11 If you say "extend ignore 7" or "extend ignore 7 6" it will do this: 1-2-10-9-8-7-11 \ 3-4-5-6-7 Breaks at the right station, but on the wrong branch. You can do "extend ignore 8 7" to break at the wrong station on the right branch. If you use "extend ignore 7 11" it ignores you, and breaks at the natural point, leg 2-3. Is it actually possible to break at station 7 along the 2-10-9-8-7 branch? Cheers! Tarquin

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Block comment
by Anton van Rosmalen 16 Jul '20

16 Jul '20

Hey guys, I hope you don't mind me asking another really basic question... I know I can comment out parts of a line using # Now I want to be able to comment out whole blocks of text (specifically in the main portion a .thconfig or .th2 file). I can't find anything in the manual about this. I mean things like: /* everything in here is commented out... */ like is common in C++ or any other programming language. What am I missing? Thanks! Anton

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Survey without clino
by Anton van Rosmalen 14 Jul '20

14 Jul '20

Hey guys, How do I enter survey data made without a clinometer. I just thought entering data like dive data would work but apparently diving only takes place under water in Therion.... It doesn't matter whether I enter fromdepth todepth data negative or positive, it doesn't matter if I add calibrate depth 0 -1 before the data.... the following line just goes down where it should be going up: So this: data diving from to tape compass fromdepth todepth left right up down r112 h1 7.00 10.00 0.00 5.00 2.00 0.00 8.00 0.00 Produces the same results as this: data diving from to tape compass fromdepth todepth left right up down calibrate depth 0 -1 r112 h1 7.00 10.00 0.00 5.00 2.00 0.00 8.00 0.00 And the same results as this: data diving from to tape compass fromdepth todepth left right up down r112 h1 7.00 10.00 0.00 -5.00 2.00 0.00 8.00 0.00 Where it should be something somewhat comparable to this: data normal from to length compass clino 0 1 5.53 5.5 24.5 I looked at various manuals and examples, but they all assume you have a disto or some other clinometer. What extremely simple point am I too moronic to understand here? Thanks! Anton

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BlueStacks 4 to run Android Cave Survey Apps
by Bruce Mutton 14 Jul '20

14 Jul '20

>> But all the Media Manager presents me with is an option to Export to >> Windows (from whence they were just imported!), to delete them or >> select all. >See what I attached. I also think that when I first tried it ,that save icon wasn't there. Then I tried importing an image file (.png) and clicked on it to view it. Then I noticed a save icon in the photo viewer. Then I went back to look at "imported" and it had a save icon, and I felt like maybe I had been blind the first time. But maybe it wasn't there the first time... It's there permanently now, even after I deleted files from it. OK, the save icon Is not really a save icon. It is the Total Commander icon. I installed Solid Explorer, and straight afterwards the Solid Explorer icon turns up! Seems that a third party-file manager is required to create folders and move files around within the BlueStacks virtual Android device. BlueStacks Media Manager only transfers files in or out, or deletes them. So in the BlueStacks Media Manager snip above, the options from the left of the image above are: - Export to any Windows folder using a simple dialog box [ie Transfer SexyTopo files to your Windows based project folder] - Use Total Commander third-party file manager to save to a different Android folder [ie Move SexyTopo files from a shared folder to Documents/SexyTopo] - Use Solid Explorer third-party file manager to save to a different Android folder [same as for Total Commander] - Delete the files So possible workflows are: Files from Windows based project folders to BlueStacks virtual Android device SexyTopo folders 1. EITHER Copy (Windows) folders/files from project folders to one of the shared BlueStacks folders (C:/Users/<User>/Documents, Documents or /ProgramData/BlueStacks/Engine/UserData/SharedFolder ) 2. OR Use BlueStacks Media Manager’s ‘Import from Windows’ to select files (but not folders) and import them into ‘Imported files’ (equivalent to sdcard/DCIM) 3. THEN Use a third-party file manager to manually create a destination folder structure (if necessary) to match any folders you just copied (ie SexyTopo/Surveys/SurveyName) because BlueStacks Media Manager cannot copy or create folders 4. In BlueStacks Media Manager select the files copied in step 1 or 2, then click your third-party file manager button, and … 5. In your third-party file manager select the destination folder (ie SexyTopo/Surveys/SurveyName) Open the surveys in SexyTopo, to interrogate them while drawing with Therion, or even edit them. Files from BlueStacks virtual Android device SexyTopo folders to Windows based project folders 1. In BlueStacks Media Manager select the files you want to return to your Windows project, and … 2. With Windows Explorer manually create a destination folder structure (if necessary) to match any folders you just copied 3. Use BlueStacks Media Manager’s ‘Export to windows’ to select any folder (ie your Windows based project folder) I found Solid Explorer much easier to understand and use than total Commander, by the way. It is still not fool proof. Files copied back to Windows can be visible with some applications (Explorer, text editors, parts of Bazaar) and not others (other parts of Bazaar). I presume this is just some sort of delay that would eventually sort itself out. If you still use PocketTopo, all you need to do is open the relevant file directly from the Windows based project folder. Oh well, that’s progress. Bruce

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BlueStacks 4 to run Android Cave Survey Apps
by Bruce Mutton 13 Jul '20

13 Jul '20

At the risk of digressing from direct relevance to Therion... And of exposing my ignorance and incompetence… Looks like SexyTopo works fine in Windows 10 in BlueStacks, subject to the proviso that Bluetooth is not accessible. And files in Windows ThisPC Documents and Pictures and \ProgramData\BlueStacks\Engine\UserData map automatically and directly to BlueStacks sdcard/windows/Documents, Pictures and BstSharedFolder Not quite as documented, but very nice and seamless. I suspect it depends on the particular setup you choose - I accepted the default of Samsung S8+. But I have not made complete friends with the BlueStacks Media Manager yet. I cannot delete unwanted folders (can only delete files), although SexyTopo provides a survey deletion function, so that is an acceptable workaround wher Using the Import from Windows script I find I can only import files. It will not import folders or file structures. Found some info in a general search that suggests that BlueStacks Media Manager cannot generally select folders. Following Tarquin’s guidance below, I get tripped up at the lines marked **. The screenshot below shows what I see after importing from windows a set of files and then selecting them. I would like to now copy them or preferably move them to sdcard/Documents/SexyTopo/Surveys/… But all the Media Manager presents me with is an option to Export to Windows (from whence they were just imported!), to delete them or select all. (These ‘Imported Files’ happen to be stored in Explore sdcard/DCIM/SharedFolder by the way, but accessing from there also does not allow the files to be moved) So I’m stuck, I cannot move files to a location that SexyTopo can access. How to copy/paste/move folders and files within BlueStacks? How to delete folders within BlueStacks? Seems like basic functionality, but only found two questions on this with a general search, both of which unanswered. The BlueStacks help and the many search other results all seem to skirt around these particular questions. It really feels like I must be missing something very obvious. Do I need to install a third-party file manager? Bruce -----Original Message----- ... BlueStacks 4 (not available on version 3). Start it, log in to Play Store. "Home" tab - Library - Google Play Store, install SexyTopo. "Home" tab - Library - System apps - Media Manager. Import From Windows, select all the files in a SexyTopo data folder (whatever you imported into Windows from your Android device Documents\SexyTopo\Surveys\somesurvey). Imported files. Tap and hold on the first file to select it. Tap on the next one etc. until all are selected. ** Click the Save icon. ** Save it to Internal shared storage\Documents\SexyTopo\Surveys\somesurvey (make sure you name the folder correctly or it won't work). You can now access your survey from the SexyTopo app. Hope this is useful to you Bruce. I am guessing the same approach probably works for TopoDroid, but I do not use it, so have not tested it. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> Therion(a)speleo.sk <https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

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Android cave software on Windows
by Bruce Mutton 10 Jul '20

10 Jul '20

Has anyone had any luck running Topodroid or SexyTopo on Windows (in a VM presumably)? Seems like it should be possible, but I just haven't managed to crack it yet. I'm wanting to manage the transition from field notes to Therion all on the same device. As I usually do with PocketTopo, having the cave open in both applications (Therion and PocketTopo). It helps keep me oriented while drawing/editing in Therion. And I don't always have a suitable Android device on hand when using Therion. Bruce

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