- Therion - speleo.sk

Survey length anomalies
by Bruce 23 Sep '14

23 Sep '14

I just noticed two anomalies re the way Therion records survey length. Data recorded like this... data cartesian from to northing easting altitude 7 7a 90 -99 4.5 7a 9 97 -9 4.5 9 10 31 -22 0 are reported as zero length surveys in the Therion survey-list output. A bug? Depends on point of view I guess, cartesian implies no actual distance measured, so zero survey length, but the definition of two points does have some parallels with a 'shot' and hence survey length. I contrast, 'no survey' leg lengths are recorded as accumulating survey length. ie flags surface fix 1 -41.1724 172.4155 572.6 fix 2 -41.20492 172.2789 574.04 fix 3 -41.21414 172.1513 574.04 etc data nosurvey from to 1 2 2 3 3 4 These are reported by Therion as accumulating survey length. I can see that the desirable behaviour of each of these scenarios might be different depending on one's particular intention. In the case of the particular data where I found this issue, I would prefer the; - underground cartesian data to accumulate length - surface nosurvey data to accumulate length, as it in fact does (I am joining up points from a gps trail) but in general I would expect; -underground nosurvey data to record zero length, because it will generally be a sound or sight connection with no actual survey, hence not surveyed length. I have not checked any of the other data survey formats. Other peoples thoughts on this? Bruce

4 6

Offsets with shadow or outline also shown
by John Stevens 23 Sep '14

23 Sep '14

I have been trying to show an offset of a lower passage with the outline of the higher passage also shown on the offset. So the main plan shows the high level in detail with the grey shadow of the lower passage. I would like the offset to show the detail of the lower passage with the outline of the higher passage. To do this I tried the following map structure. map keyhole1LLM #lower level map keyhole1ps3 break keyhole1ps5 break keyhole1ps4 keyhole1ps7 break keyhole1ps6 keyhole1ps8 endmap map keyhole1HLM # high level map keyhole1ps1 break keyhole1ps2 endmap map keyhole1M # combined map – not used keyhole1HLM break keyhole1LLM endmap map keyhole1LLpreHLM # lower shown, higher outline keyhole1LLM preview above keyhole1HLM endmap map keyhole1Moffset # higher shown, lower grey - offset only lower shown ??? keyhole1HLM keyhole1LLpreHLM [-10 50 m] below endmap The map keyhole1LLpreHLM shows what I want to offset with the detail of the lower passage and the higher in outline. But when this is offset the higher outline vanishes! Is the preview command the way to go about this or is it not possible at present? John S

2 1

offsets and colour by map
by Andrew Atkinson 22 Sep '14

22 Sep '14

Hello On debian jessie Therion 5.3.14-1 (woops there is a new version, but I doubt it changes be below) For those who do not want to follow the whole long mail it can be summerised as - preview above/below fall of the page (bug?) - can we have colour preview-above/below map to have the same colour preview as the offset part - a possible bug when trying to offset all parts - although could be just my mis-use of the offset! Now the detail..... I have a cave (more of a bolder chock, really) that I have had the misfortune to survey. now when I come to try and present it I am having to think of novel ways that will make it useable, so have been looking at offsets and maps. This has lead to me finding bugs, or possibly it might be just pushing the use well beyond where it was intended to go. So I have used offsets and colour by maps successfully before, so have a basic understanding of what they do. All data available as usual at http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Burrington/Reads/ not all these tries have been committed, it is work in progress so joins and most of the detail have not been done.... So with the line in the thconfig file of select ReadsM@Reads -map-level 1 and colour map-fg map In the th file I have map ReadsM Level1M [0 -20 m] below Level2M [0 -40 m] below Level3M [0 -60 m] below Level4M [0 -80 m] below endmap Which does not work as expected, each of the 4 levels is coloured, but they are not in offset So I played and changed to thconfig line map-level setting select ReadsM@Reads -map-level 0 Offset works but they are not in colour (althugh it seems that the programmer had not expected all levels to be displaces, so the 'shadow' is now not on the page, which must be a bug) So I decided to get round the none colour 'bug' by doing the offset to inside the Level1M. I had edited it to map ReadsM Level1M Level2M [0 -40 m] below Level3M [0 -60 m] below Level4M [0 -80 m] below endmap map Level1M DryEntM@DryEnt [0 20 m] below MainChamberM@MainChamber [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRoute2M@JuncAlterRoute2 [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRouteM@JuncAlterRoute [0 20 m] below WaterM@Water [0 20 m] below WaterfallChamberM@WaterfallChamber [0 20 m] below endmap Which works fine, but a little tedious, unless there is a reason it would be easier if the whole map could be offset, rather than having to do every submap. Also the 'shadow' does not stay the same colour which is a shame as I need the colour to make it clear where the ofset came from. Which means this whole idea does not work, can I add this as a feature request, anyone got any bright ideas of how it can be done, best I have come up with is filling the colouring the maps and turning off all the other but that would be a manual merge, which I would prefer not to do I also tried map ReadsM Level1M Level1M_offset Level2M [0 -40 m] below Level3M [0 -60 m] below Level4M [0 -80 m] below endmap map Level1M DryEntM@DryEnt MainChamberM@MainChamber JuncAlterRoute2M@JuncAlterRoute2 JuncAlterRouteM@JuncAlterRoute WaterM@Water WaterfallChamberM@WaterfallChamber endmap map Level1M_offset DryEntM@DryEnt [0 20 m] above MainChamberM@MainChamber [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRoute2M@JuncAlterRoute2 [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRouteM@JuncAlterRoute [0 20 m] below WaterM@Water [0 20 m] below WaterfallChamberM@WaterfallChamber [0 20 m] below endmap Which I do not understand why but both Level1M_offset and level1M come out in the same colour, only slight problem is the detail is still on so the overview map is more complicated than is should be. There is the option of preview in the therion book and on the wiki page http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/tbe:wiki3?s[]=preview#outline it has preview There is also an option for the color of the background, “map-bg”. Other objects that can be coloured are “preview-above” and “preview-below” I have never understood this option so time to play map ReadsM Level3M Level4M preview above Level1M endmap with select ReadsM@@Reads -map-level 0 works but no colour and the same bug that the preview is not fully on the page. Making it select ReadsM@@Reads -map-level 1 Colours level 3 and 4 but no preview The therion book on page 31 has preview <above/below> <other map id> will put the outline of the other map in the specified preview position relative to the current map. Preview is displayed only if the map is in the map-level level as specified by the select command. Use the revise command if you want to add maps from higher levels to the preview. But I don't understand why it is not in the same level?? Is is possible to use the revise command to fix this.? thanks Andrew

4 4

Altitude colours
by John Stevens 22 Sep '14

22 Sep '14

Is there somewhere I can change the colours for altitude? Can I choose my own colour spectrum and increase the number of colours used. How many are there at present? John S

2 1

Warning if compass / backcompass differ more than a given threshold
by Roger Schuster 22 Sep '14

22 Sep '14

Hello cavers, if one uses compass and backcompass in the centreline section Therion averages both data after inverting the backcompass value. The same is true for clino and backclino. Is there a way to give some kind of threshold to the survey data so Therion issues a warning if compass and (inverted) backcompass differ too much? Say the threshold is 2 degrees, the value for compass is 90 degrees and the backcompass reading 273 degrees. Now Therion should give a warning that the difference between both readings is 3 degrees. The same should be true for clino and backclino readings. The cherry on top would be if Therion could generate a list of stations / legs with differences greater than the threshold. With such kind of list it would be easy to locate legs which need a re-survey. Thanks, Roger

2 1

Adding Translations with Windows
by Henry Bennett 22 Sep '14

22 Sep '14

Hi, I'm working a translation for Filipino [Tagalog] but am a Windows user. Details in the thbook [pg 75] show how to compile this into a Linux build. What the process for us Microsoft heathens? Thanks, Henry

2 1

How to scale the background image.
by Michael Lake 17 Sep '14

17 Sep '14

Hi all I have a completed therion map. A scrap was traced over a background image that was 2000 px wide (scanned at 300 dpi). I wish to reduce the size of the background image to 1000 px as it only needs to be effectively 150 dpi resolution. In the Gimp I reduced it to 1k wide and changed the dpi from 300 to 150 dpi. In xtherion now the image is 1/2 the size of the scrap (hence it guess it ignores any dpi info in the image file). I can use "Adjust" in the "Drawing area" to move the image up or down but how can I scale it on screen to once again match the scrap? Mike UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F DISCLAIMER: This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the University of Technology Sydney. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. Think. Green. Do. Please consider the environment before printing this email.

3 7

offsets and colour by map
by Andrew Atkinson 11 Sep '14

11 Sep '14

Hello On debian jessie Therion 5.3.14-1 (woops there is a new version, but I doubt it changes be below) For those who do not want to follow the whole long mail it can be summarised as - preview above/below fall of the page (bug?) - can we have colour preview-above/below map to have the same colour preview as the offset part - a possible bug when trying to offset all parts - although could be just my mis-use of the offset! Now the detail..... I have a cave (more of a bolder chock, really) that I have had the misfortune to survey. now when I come to try and present it I am having to think of novel ways that will make it usable, so have been looking at offsets and maps. This has lead to me finding bugs, or possibly it might be just pushing the use well beyond where it was intended to go. So I have used offsets and colour by maps successfully before, so have a basic understanding of what they do. All data available as usual at http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Burrington/Reads/ not all these tries have been committed, it is work in progress so joins and most of the detail have not been done.... So with the line in the thconfig file of select ReadsM@Reads -map-level 1 and colour map-fg map In the th file I have map ReadsM Level1M [0 -20 m] below Level2M [0 -40 m] below Level3M [0 -60 m] below Level4M [0 -80 m] below endmap Which does not work as expected, each of the 4 levels is coloured, but they are not in offset So I played and changed to thconfig line map-level setting select ReadsM@Reads -map-level 0 Offset works but they are not in colour (although it seems that the programmer had not expected all levels to be displaces, so the 'shadow' is now not on the page, which must be a bug) So I decided to get round the none colour 'bug' by doing the offset to inside the Level1M. I had edited it to map ReadsM Level1M Level2M [0 -40 m] below Level3M [0 -60 m] below Level4M [0 -80 m] below endmap map Level1M DryEntM@DryEnt [0 20 m] below MainChamberM@MainChamber [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRoute2M@JuncAlterRoute2 [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRouteM@JuncAlterRoute [0 20 m] below WaterM@Water [0 20 m] below WaterfallChamberM@WaterfallChamber [0 20 m] below endmap Which works fine, but a little tedious, unless there is a reason it would be easier if the whole map could be offset, rather than having to do every submap. Also the 'shadow' does not stay the same colour which is a shame as I need the colour to make it clear where the offset came from. Which means this whole idea does not work, can I add this as a feature request, anyone got any bright ideas of how it can be done, best I have come up with is filling the colouring the maps and turning off all the other but that would be a manual merge, which I would prefer not to do I also tried map ReadsM Level1M Level1M_offset Level2M [0 -40 m] below Level3M [0 -60 m] below Level4M [0 -80 m] below endmap map Level1M DryEntM@DryEnt MainChamberM@MainChamber JuncAlterRoute2M@JuncAlterRoute2 JuncAlterRouteM@JuncAlterRoute WaterM@Water WaterfallChamberM@WaterfallChamber endmap map Level1M_offset DryEntM@DryEnt [0 20 m] above MainChamberM@MainChamber [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRoute2M@JuncAlterRoute2 [0 20 m] below JuncAlterRouteM@JuncAlterRoute [0 20 m] below WaterM@Water [0 20 m] below WaterfallChamberM@WaterfallChamber [0 20 m] below endmap Which I do not understand why but both Level1M_offset and level1M come out in the same colour, only slight problem is the detail is still on so the overview map is more complicated than is should be. There is the option of preview in the therion book and on the wiki page http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/tbe:wiki3?s[]=preview#outline it has preview There is also an option for the colour of the background, “map-bg”. Other objects that can be coloured are “preview-above” and “preview-below” I have never understood this option so time to play map ReadsM Level3M Level4M preview above Level1M endmap with select ReadsM@@Reads -map-level 0 works but no colour and the same bug that the preview is not fully on the page. Making it select ReadsM@@Reads -map-level 1 Colours level 3 and 4 but no preview The therion book on page 31 has preview <above/below> <other map id> will put the outline of the other map in the specified preview position relative to the current map. Preview is displayed only if the map is in the map-level level as specified by the select command. Use the revise command if you want to add maps from higher levels to the preview. But I don't understand why it is not in the same level?? Is is possible to use the revise command to fix this.? thanks Andrew

1 0

What is going on with these survey legs?
by Bill Gee 09 Sep '14

09 Sep '14

Hello everyone - I am struggling with a couple of survey shots that Therion is not interpretting correctly. It might be a bug in how Therion averages forward and backward compass when the readings are near 360 and 180 degrees. Here is a block of centerline data. The two shots causing problems are B8-B9 and B14-B15. data normal from to tape compass clino backcompass backclino left right up down B1 B2 35.7 32 22 214 -20 14 4 4 2.5 B2 B3 16.4 31 -20 211 21 9 - 12 3 B3 B4 40.5 18 3 197 -2 0 8 5 4 B4 B5 24.6 82 5 263 -5 4 8 40 4 B5 B6 18.8 18 -5 199 5 3 12 5 2 B6 B7 43.0 59.5 2 241 -2 - 10 0 2.5 B7 B8 67.7 348 0 169 0 6 3 2.5 4 B8 B9 28.5 359 -2 181 2 8 4 .5 1.5 <<=== B9 B10 25.2 351.5 1 174 -2 2 8 2 1 B10 B11 16.1 40 -3 221 3 4 7 0 1 B11 B12 38.0 0 2 180 -3 3 7 1.5 3 B12 B13 17.3 338 -6 160 5 10 10 2 1.5 B13 B14 28.0 338 3 158 -4 9 8 0 3.5 B14 B15 49.0 359.5 -1 180 0 7 4.5 0 5.5 <<=== B15 B16 46.3 7 -10 189 9 4.5 5 6 1.5 B16 B17 22.1 317.5 8 140 -8 8 7 3 4 B17 BM1 15.5 348.5 -5 168.5 4 4 10 15 4 As you can see, this passage is going basically straight north. Therion interprets both shots as having a forward compass reading of 180, with result that the compiled map has the passage going backward on itself. If I replace the back compass with a dash, then the map compiles correctly. I tried reversing the forward and backward compass readings, but it made no difference. One of the shots (B11-B12) has compass readings of exactly 0 and 180. This shot displays correctly on the map. Any thoughts? Thanks - Bill Gee

3 5

Websearch program
by Dave Clucas 28 Aug '14

28 Aug '14

A new improved version of Andrew Atkinson's web search program is now available for download at http://www.daveclucas.com/cms/index.php/downloads/category/15-therion. An example can be viewed at http://sarawak-caves.com/php/websearch.php. This program is still being developed with collaboration from Bruce Mutton. Any suggestions for additions or improvements are welcome. Dave Clucas daveclucas.com sarawak-caves.com dave.clucas(a)icloud.com Exploring the World - One cave at a time

1 0