- Therion - speleo.sk

Re: [Therion] Overlaying xvi file and map background as the same scale
by Martin KERN 15 Feb '18

15 Feb '18

Hi, Thanks for your answers and sorry for the delayed response. I’m trying this method and I see if that works. Martin K.

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Spanish translation
by Evaristo Quiroga 15 Feb '18

15 Feb '18

Hi, In order to accelerate the learning curve of Therion, and convince more other club members (not English speaking), and I have updated the Therion and Xtherion Spanish translation, fillingthe empty "es" in the files texts.txt and xtexts.txt. I need someone to incorporatethis files to the program, and make a new Windows compilation to have a new windows binary with the new spanish translation to distribute to the spanish community. Thanks, Evaristo Quiroga

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Overlaying xvi file and map background as the same scale
by Martin KERN 06 Feb '18

06 Feb '18

Hi, I want “Therionise” a cave map wich is alredy drawn. I have the data survey but not the vector data. - I created a centerline - I digitalized the map. - I import it and the xvi file in my .th2 as backgrounds. The problem is that scale of xvi file and map image are not the same. How can I overlay them at the same scale? Thank’s and sorry for my bad English, Martin

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Re: [Therion] Overlaying xvi file and map background as the same scale
by Martin KERN 05 Feb '18

05 Feb '18

Hi Martin, Thanks for your answer. I want overlay .xvi file and image file for two reasons. 1) I can see if the old survey what I have is correctly drawn, so if stations of .xvi and image are on the same position. 2) This cave is still in exploration. When I will add new stations, how I’ll draw them if the xvi and the first part of the cave are not on the same scale ?

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Rope and anchors symbols
by Evaristo Quiroga 03 Feb '18

03 Feb '18

Hi, I greatly appreciate the improvement made by Vladimir at the rope line symbol. https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg05992.html With this symbol you can control if the rope section has anchors and rebelays, as line options. This options are global to the line: have or not rebelays or anchors. Now a I need to go more ahead, I want control the anchor type (natural: tree, block, etc or artificial: spit, multimonti, parabolt, etc) in every point and the rebelay in previous section. I want a round point for artificial anchor (like the Vladimir symbol) and a triangle point for natural anchor. When we rig with Y knots and deviators you need to control the line section without rebelays and anchors, so that the rope is straight and the knots do not appear as anchors. (see attached figure). Now I have to way to implement this in Therion: the easy and the elegant. Easy. Create two new point symbols for natural and artificial anchors. And use the rope line symbol with rebelay and anchor OFF in the rope section with Y and deviators, and ON in the other sections. Elegant. Create a new rope line symbol, where I can control in every point the anchor type (Natural, Artificial or None, for knot) and the rebelay rope effect in the previous rope section. I think we can do this by defining options to the line point. I know other have implemented similar option, like "adjust horizontal". To do this a need code examples with similar option implementation to inspire me. Thanks, Evaristo.

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Fwd: Aven in stereoscopic 3D
by Footleg 02 Feb '18

02 Feb '18

Apologies for cross posting, but I think this is of general interest to Therion users too. I had not heard of this route to view 3D cave models in a stereoscopic viewer before. If Loch could export models in a standard 3D model format including the landscape overlays it would open up 3D viewing options. E.g. A side-by-side image pair video signal can be viewed in full colour 3D on many 3D TV sets and projectors. Loch does not provide a side by side option currently. If it could export models to a format another viewer can show then it gives a quick route to display models in this sort of way. Footleg ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Jarvist Moore Frost Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 00:07 Subject: Re: Aven in stereoscopic 3D To: Pedro Silva Pinto Cc: survex(a)survex.com <survex(a)survex.com> Perhaps easiest is to extract the data & use with a more mainstream viewer. I had a lot of luck with Pymol (designed for biological molecules / molecular dynamics), and Thomas Holder's python library for directly importing .3d data: https://github.com/jarvist/migovecsurveydata/tree/master/scripts/pymol Example video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s68V9EsRvmE Pymol is open source, but a lot of the web links direct you to the pay version. Pymol supports all kinds of weird and wonderful 3D outputs, including shutter glasses. Mainly I've just used the 'cross eyed' stereo and anaglyph (coloured 3D specs). Back in ~2011 I wrote a C program that linked to Survex and exported the .3d file to a '.CGO' set of graphics primitives. This was a bit more clunky, but also worked fine. Best, Jarv On 30 January 2018 at 20:50, Pedro Silva Pinto wrote: > Hi, > > Is there any way I could take advantage of the OpenGL 3D capabilities of my > Nvidia Quadro graphics card and see my surveys in Aven in Stereoscopic 3D? > > Regards > > Pedro > > > --

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3D output file for printing
by franck TUOT 01 Feb '18

01 Feb '18

Hello, I was wondering if someone already tried to print some caves in 3D, using a 3D printer. Any input about how to get a .STL .OBJ .AMF or .3MF (which I know are 3D format for printer). If someone did a printing, any issue / success to share ? Like I guess any small narrow passage will be hard to print if the final print put some kind of pressure on it. Everything will depend of the scale obviously. Anyway, maybe it’s just a dream but I thought it’ll be possible to do such a thing those days : ) Have a good evening everybody, Franck Tuot

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Re: [Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 145, Issue 21
by Steven Tucker 31 Jan '18

31 Jan '18

I've 3D printed three small caves. Open the lox file in Therion's Loch viewer. Export to a vtk file. I then opened the vtk file in ParaView and used ParaView to export it to a stl file which I 3D printed. Results are varied. An issue I came across is when two larger areas are linked through a squeeze. Sometimes the squeeze would not be large enough to print and it would print like a gap between the two sections. The same often happens between two scraps. Where the scraps connect, the 3D printer would not always print them together. They looked like they were together, but would separate when the support structures of the model were taken off. I've had issues with holes in the model, and then it cannot print. Most of the above I've been able to automatically fix with Meshmixer. Meshmixer allows an "analysis" and "inspector" that is suppose to find holes and weak points and can then automatically repair them. This sometimes fixes issues and sometimes doesn't. Steven On 31 January 2018 at 13:00, <therion-request(a)speleo.sk> wrote: > Send Therion mailing list submissions to > therion(a)speleo.sk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > therion-request(a)speleo.sk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > therion-owner(a)speleo.sk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Therion digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. 3D output file for printing (franck TUOT) > 2. Re: 3D output file for printing (dennis mitchell) > 3. Re: 3D output file for printing (Philippe Vernant) > 4. Re: 3D output file for printing (Martin Sluka) > 5. Re: 3D output file for printing (Benedikt Hallinger) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 21:38:46 -0800 > From: franck TUOT <franck.tuot(a)gmail.com> > To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> > Subject: [Therion] 3D output file for printing > Message-ID: <63C87A9F-7FE9-4CAC-98CD-35E3DFF17220(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hello, > > I was wondering if someone already tried to print some caves in 3D, using > a 3D printer. > Any input about how to get a .STL .OBJ .AMF or .3MF (which I know are 3D > format for printer). > If someone did a printing, any issue / success to share ? > Like I guess any small narrow passage will be hard to print if the final > print put some kind of pressure on it. > Everything will depend of the scale obviously. > > Anyway, maybe it’s just a dream but I thought it’ll be possible to do such > a thing those days : ) > Have a good evening everybody, > > Franck Tuot > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 21:41:48 -0800 > From: dennis mitchell <denmit81(a)gmail.com> > To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> > Subject: Re: [Therion] 3D output file for printing > Message-ID: > <CAFSDKuMtvR5YJT3W=Hoe79j7c42FtEn6+LAYjLE6_uXwvgjwfg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I used a mesh program to convert the therion 3d output to the .obj format. > Worked to view in 3d with a Google cardboard viewer. > > On Jan 30, 2018 9:39 PM, "franck TUOT via Therion" <therion(a)speleo.sk> > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I was wondering if someone already tried to print some caves in 3D, using > > a 3D printer. > > Any input about how to get a .STL .OBJ .AMF or .3MF (which I know are 3D > > format for printer). > > If someone did a printing, any issue / success to share ? > > Like I guess any small narrow passage will be hard to print if the final > > print put some kind of pressure on it. > > Everything will depend of the scale obviously. > > > > Anyway, maybe it’s just a dream but I thought it’ll be possible to do > such > > a thing those days : ) > > Have a good evening everybody, > > > > Franck Tuot > > _______________________________________________ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion(a)speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > >

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Экспорт в KML - export cave-list html and kml
by Bruce Mutton 28 Jan '18

28 Jan '18

Sorry С уважением, I may have taken over your post! > I suspect the kml exports are not reporting the hierarchy however. I was wrong, export cave-list -fmt kml does report the full hierarchy, and may even behave better than the html output. But it is a bit complicated – I did some testing… Using this general form of survey definition… survey 01 -title “Some Cave name” -entrance 1 #defining the entrance here as part of survey definition tells Therion ‘it is a cave’ centerline cs lat-long fix 0 11:22:33.4 22:33:44.5 1234 # set the GPS coordinates and elevation of station 0 station 3 "Some other entrance name" entrance # Mark station 3 as another entrance of ‘Some Cave name’ cave, and display it’s name also … endcenterline endsurvey And using these exports…. #html export cave-list \ -surveys on \ # on = show survey, cave hierarchy, & entrances so long as location is on, # off = show caves only, not entrances, no hierarchy -location on \ # on = show cave coords, and entrance coordinates only if surveys are on # off = no coordinates -output ./Output/RiwakaSystemCaves.html #kml export cave-list \ -surveys on \ # on = show survey, cave & entrances hierarchy # off = show caves only, not entrances, no hierarchy -location on \ # on|off = no difference -output ./Output/RiwakaSystemCaves.kml Some examples using variations of the above. In outputs below there are four caves explicitly defined; H-Hawkes Cave, Hawkes Kairuru Middle Cave, Kairuru Cave, Kairuru 3030. And one cave that Therion has deduced as it is implied by the survey structure; Ngarua cave, Takaka Hill. (Unfortunately I have not been disciplined with naming, so apologies that it is confusing). “Kairuru 3030” is defined as a cave, and it has two entrances defined in the centrelines (that are therefore part of Kairuru 3030 Cave, which has three entrances in total). It is one of many caves in a Therion project that the outputs below are taken from. Here the word ‘cave’ is used to mean the main entrance (ie ‘cave’ is an entrance and a cave, whereas ‘entrance’ is just an entrance that is usually a part of an already defined cave). HTML Outputs Html surveys on location on (the survey, cave and entrance hierarchy is shown. Caves have a length reported, entrances do not) Html surveys on location off (the survey and cave hierarchy is shown, but not entrances*. Caves have a length reported, entrances do not) * Could this be a bug? Maybe, maybe not. The last two records ARE entrances, but they have no survey legs associated, they are gps fixes only. Maybe that is why Therion treats them differently and displays these but not others. Therion has used the survey hierarchy to infer it is a cave called “Ngarua Cave, Takaka Hill” even though there is no cave entrance defined in the survey definition. Html surveys off location on (No hierarchy, caves only, no entrances – except fixed entrances, has coordinates columns) Html surveys off location off (No hierarchy, caves only, no entrances – except fixed entrances, no coordinates) KML Outputs Kml surveys on location on (the survey, cave and entrance hierarchy is shown. Does not distinguish bottom level records as either cave or entrance, could be either) Kml surveys on location off (same) Kml surveys off location on, Kml surveys off location off (both look the same, both contain coordinates - kml would be boring without locations!) Hope that helps :) Bruce From: Bruce Mutton [mailto:bruce@tomo.co.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2018 11:58 AM To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: Re: [Therion] Экспорт в KML Yes it does make a difference. Define a cave with the survey definition. Define secondary entrances within centrelines. See the difference if you export caves to a html file. For best effect you can do this for a multi cave project where each cave has multiple entrances. I will post example outputs later. I suspect the kml exports are not reporting the hierachy however. Bruce Sent from my Samsung device, hence the typo's -------- Original message -------- From: Владимир Георгиев via Therion <therion(a)speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > Date: 28/01/18 10:16 (GMT+12:00) To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > Cc: Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev(a)gmail.com <mailto:vld.georgiev@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Therion] Экспорт в KML Bruce Yes, that's right, you can define any number of entrances like this. Although I admit I haven't used the "survey 01 -title “Some Cave name” -entrance 1" syntax. So far I have always listed the entrances within the surveys with several "station XX "Some other entrance name" entrance" lines. Does it make a difference which syntax is used? Vlad On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 11:01 PM, Bruce Mutton via Therion <therion(a)speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > wrote: And I have no Russian, but making assumptions based on Vladimir’s response… (and apologising for using English) There are more subtle nuances that can be conveyed. Have a look at https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist?s[]=entrance#points <https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist?s%5b%5d=entrance#points> and scroll down to ‘Passage Ends’ point entrance. You can tell Therion to define a cave, and further, specifically define all the entrances that the ‘cave’ has. To expand on and change Vladimir’s example survey 01 -title “Some Cave name” -entrance 1 #defining the entrance here as part of survey definition tells Therion ‘it is a cave’ centerline cs lat-long fix 0 11:22:33.4 22:33:44.5 1234 # set the GPS coordinates and elevation of station 0 station 3 "Some other entrance name" entrance # Mark station 3 as another entrance of ‘Some Cave name’ cave, and display it’s name also … endcenterline endsurvey Have I got that right Vlad? Bruce From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk <mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk> ] On Behalf Of ???????? ???????? via Therion Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2018 7:18 AM To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > Cc: Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev(a)gmail.com <mailto:vld.georgiev@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Therion] Экспорт в KML Hi My Russian is not that good, so I will reply in English. The kml model can export the entrances, if that is what you mean by "объектов". To get the name of the cave to display, you have to mark one or more stations as entrances. Something like this: centerline cs lat-long fix 0 11:22:33.4 22:33:44.5 1234 # set the GPS coordinates and elevation of station 0 station 0 "Some cave name" entrance # Mark station 0 as an entrance and set the name to be displayed. Not necessarily the same station as the one with the coords. ... Vladimir 2018-01-26 11:08 GMT+02:00 Кунгурская лаборатория-стационар via Therion <therion(a)speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> >: Здравствуйте. Подскажите, пожалуйста. Я пытаюсь экспортировать данные в KML-файл. Вот строка export model -fmt kml -output Kungur_Z.kml При просмотре kml-файла он не отображает названия объектов, а отображаются только линии. Подскажите, пожалуйста, как сделать так, чтобы названия объектов тоже отображались? _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion(a)speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

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Re: [Therion] Экспорт в KML
by Bruce Mutton 27 Jan '18

27 Jan '18

Yes it does make a difference. Define a cave with the survey definition. Define secondary entrances within centrelines.See the difference if you export caves to a html file. For best effect you can do this for a multi cave project where each cave has multiple entrances. I will post example outputs later.I suspect the kml exports are not reporting the hierachy however. Bruce Sent from my Samsung device, hence the typo's -------- Original message -------- From: Владимир Георгиев via Therion <therion(a)speleo.sk> Date: 28/01/18 10:16 (GMT+12:00) To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Cc: Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] Экспорт в KML Bruce Yes, that's right, you can define any number of entrances like this. Although I admit I haven't used the "survey 01 -title “Some Cave name” -entrance 1" syntax. So far I have always listed the entrances within the surveys with several "station XX "Some other entrance name" entrance" lines. Does it make a difference which syntax is used? Vlad On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 11:01 PM, Bruce Mutton via Therion <therion(a)speleo.sk> wrote: And I have no Russian, but making assumptions based on Vladimir’s response…(and apologising for using English) There are more subtle nuances that can be conveyed.Have a look at https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist?s[]=entrance#points and scroll down to ‘Passage Ends’ point entrance.You can tell Therion to define a cave, and further, specifically define all the entrances that the ‘cave’ has. To expand on and change Vladimir’s example survey 01 -title “Some Cave name” -entrance 1 #defining the entrance here as part of survey definition tells Therion ‘it is a cave’ centerline cs lat-long fix 0 11:22:33.4 22:33:44.5 1234 # set the GPS coordinates and elevation of station 0 station 3 "Some other entrance name" entrance # Mark station 3 as another entrance of ‘Some Cave name’ cave, and display it’s name also … endcenterlineendsurvey Have I got that right Vlad?Bruce From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of ???????? ???????? via Therion Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2018 7:18 AM To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Cc: Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] Экспорт в KML Hi My Russian is not that good, so I will reply in English.The kml model can export the entrances, if that is what you mean by "объектов". To get the name of the cave to display, you have to mark one or more stations as entrances. Something like this: centerline cs lat-long fix 0 11:22:33.4 22:33:44.5 1234 # set the GPS coordinates and elevation of station 0 station 0 "Some cave name" entrance # Mark station 0 as an entrance and set the name to be displayed. Not necessarily the same station as the one with the coords. ...Vladimir 2018-01-26 11:08 GMT+02:00 Кунгурская лаборатория-стационар via Therion <therion(a)speleo.sk>:Здравствуйте. Подскажите, пожалуйста. Я пытаюсь экспортировать данные в KML-файл. Вот строка export model -fmt kml -output Kungur_Z.kml При просмотре kml-файла он не отображает названия объектов, а отображаются только линии. Подскажите, пожалуйста, как сделать так, чтобы названия объектов тоже отображались? _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion(a)speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

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