- Therion - speleo.sk

Disto-X Callibration
by Bruce Mutton 07 May '09

07 May '09

I feel a little bit foolish, just discovered the Calibration section in the pocket topo manual - I had been looking for this stuff in the calibration manual and not the pocket topo manual - it solves much of the mystery about the meaning of values obtained from the calibration calculations. My Disto-X is still misbehaving, but at least I can now interpret and manipulate the results myself. Bruce

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make samples qmarks is broken
by Wookey 05 May '09

05 May '09

I'm packaging current Therion (5.2.8) for Debian (much-needed update!) I find that there is a problem with the build: make samples fails with: q-marks/thconfig.2 couldn't open "q-marks/questions.html": no such file or directory while executing "open $fn "r"" (procedure "get_html_body" line 2) invoked from within "get_html_body $html_src" (procedure "create_docs" line 95) invoked from within "create_docs" invoked from within "if {([llength $argv] > 0) && [regexp -nocase {^clean$} [lindex $argv 0]]} { scan_files "" scan_lists clean_files } else { if {[llength $argv] ..." (file "samples.tcl" line 515) make[1]: *** [all] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory /home/wookey/debian/therion/downloads/therion/samples' make: *** [samples.doc/index.tex] Error 2 My tcl is pretty weak but I think the problem is that it tries to use questions.html before it has been generated by the export line in thconfig.2 running 'therion thconfig.2' in qmarks fails with the following error: kpathsea: Running mktexmf cmcss10 ! I can't find file cmcss10'. <*> ...=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input cmcss10 Please type another input file name ! Emergency stop. <*> ...=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input cmcss10 Transcript written on mfput.log. grep: cmcss10.log: No such file or directory mktextfm: mf-nowin -progname=mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; nonstopmode; input cmcss10' failed to make cmcss10.tfm. makempx: Command failed: etex --parse-first-line --interaction=nonstopmode mpxerr.tex; see mpxerr.log >> data.mp >> data.mpx ! Unable to make mpx file. l.3834 ATTR__text := btex \thcomment \thfb\char115 \char116 \char114 \char11... 9 output files written: data.1 .. data.4007 Transcript written on data.log. therion: error -- metapost exit code -- 256 which looks like a missing font problem cmcss10 is in the texlive-lang-cyrillic package. I could make this a build dependency, if it really is needed. (there is a more general problem here that all this sample-generation stuff causes a therion bootstrapping problem - you need therion already built in order to build it, which is very bad in cross-building situations). We should probably just skip all this stuff when cross-building. Now the previous packaging had a fix like this: diff -ruN therion-old/thtexfonts.cxx therion/thtexfonts.cxx --- therion-old/thtexfonts.cxx 2007-05-25 17:51:30.000000000 +0100 +++ therion/thtexfonts.cxx 2008-01-03 22:45:51.000000000 +0000 @@ -70,13 +70,13 @@ F.ss = "cmss10"; F.si = "cmssi10"; FONTS.push_back(F); - F.id = get_enc_id("xl2"); - F.rm = "csr10"; - F.it = "csti10"; - F.bf = "csbx10"; - F.ss = "csss10"; - F.si = "csssi10"; - FONTS.push_back(F); +// F.id = get_enc_id("xl2"); +// F.rm = "csr10"; +// F.it = "csti10"; +// F.bf = "csbx10"; +// F.ss = "csss10"; +// F.si = "csssi10"; +// FONTS.push_back(F); } which I don't think is related, but I can't remember what it was for, so I'm not sure whether it's still needed. I think that was so that therion could run without needing czech/slovak tex fonts installed? Can someone who understands this stuff confirm/deny? Wookey -- Principal hats: iEndian - Balloonboard - Toby Churchill - Emdebian http://wookware.org/

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Southern DistoX's
by Bruce Mutton 04 May '09

04 May '09

Has anyone successfully calibrated a DistoX in the southern hemisphere? I have one that is refusing to be calibrated, and although I doubt the position on the planet is the problem, I guess I just need to check all avenues. Bruce

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Disto-X Calibration Woes
by Bruce Mutton 04 May '09

04 May '09

Hi All (not sure if I have sent this message to the appropriate forums - I'm sure you'll let me know) I've been the proud co-owner of a Disto-X for about two weeks, but am almost disillusioned that to date I have been unable to calibrate it satisfactorily. I have used it in a cave for a minor survey branch, and it seemed to work fine. No pda yet, so mostly done the old fashioned way with paper. Perhaps some of you out there have had similar experiences and been able to solve them? On soldering together I eagerly went through a calibration procedure in my back yard holding the disto-X by hand against my chest and aiming roughly at a particular point for each shot. I was standing about 3m from a steel framed trampoline (pictured in the attachment), so of course I wasn't expecting a perfect result. I got delta = 0.9 and compared with the 'acceptable' value of delta < 0.5 I thought I'd done OK for a 'rough enough' attempt. This is the best calibration delta I have ever had, ALL later more careful attempts have been much worse, and therefore the only one I have ever loaded into the disto-X has been the first one. I then thought I'd install some lithium non-rechargeable cells and do a careful calibration. I drove square wooden stakes into the ground in bare grassland. There was a 230 Volt power cable buried in the ground ~35m away. There was a steel axe 35m way, and I left my keys and cell phone 50m away. Waving my spectacles and wrist watch over the instrument produced no effect (the bearing and clino constantly wander 0.1 to 0.2 deg with no disturbing influences present) I figured these precautions were likely to result in less disturbance (by at least an order or two of magnitude) than the presence of a cavers headlight, SRT kit etc that are always likely to be within 0.5m to 1.0m of an instrument held by a surveying caver. Using the stake to position the instrument carefully I took front-rear-left-right shots aiming at specific points. I took up-down shots resting the instrument on the vertical face of the stake, and used my hand to give the instrument something to 'read' for the 'up' shots. For the 'downward diagonal shots I used the same approach as for front-rear-left-right. For the upward diagonal shots I held the instrument near my belly button and aimed at my hand to give it something to read. Initially these calibration delta values were in excess of 2.5, but I traced that back to a nail in the wooden peg. I went out and bought brand new pegs and checked them for magnetic effect on the disto-X. The new pegs enabled values of 1.5 to 2.5. Processing the exported calibration files I find that the clino typically varies by 1 to 2 deg and the bearings by 2 to 6 degrees for each of the 4 'roll-about-long-axis' values. I studied the time it takes the bearing and clino to stabilise when the instrument is placed on a firm surface. This is a generous two seconds, so I always imagine a very unstable or under damped compass while I wait before pressing the 'dist' button. I also imagine that the movement of the instrument as I push the button is a problem - hence the wooden pegs. No improvement with the above approach so I made up the wooden guide pictured in the attachments. It enables me, in a low tech kind of way, to ensure the long axis of the instrument body is always pointing in the same direction for each of the 'roll' shots and usually results in no detectable movement as the button is pressed. What I found is that the laser spot moves about 40 to 70mm as the instrument is rolled about it's axis (after accounting for the offset position of the laser source in the instrument) on a target about 5m away. This equates to a misalignment of the laser of about 0.5 to 0.8 deg relative to the body of the instrument. This seems to me to be a reasonable construction tolerance, and one of the effects that the first four carefully TARGETED sets of shots are intended to account for. It also means I can not rely entirely on my wooden guide, because to do so would be to 'lock in' the 'laser-disto body' misalignment. I need to focus the laser spot on a particular point - and I believe this is what is intended by the instructions. If I place the disto-X in the guide, and make repeated shots with an identical orientation, I get readings for bearing and clino that are within 0.1 deg typically, and occasionally 0.3 deg. These compare directly with the values quoted two paragraphs above, and are an order of magnitude smaller. So repeatability of readings is good with constant position of instrument, but not with 'roll-about-long-axis'. If I rotate the disto-X 180 deg in plan (display upwards always) the back bearings and forward bearings are also highly repeatable, but always about 8 deg out (ie 016 deg maps to 188 deg). The clinos match perfectly (ie -5 deg maps to +5deg). This may be as a result of my 'delta = 0.9' calibration making the compass rose non-linear or something else? So, any advice? One other thing that doesn't have direct bearing on the calibration, but does become annoying after a time. There seems to be no way to remove a calibration shot from either the disto-X or the pocket topo calibration application. This means that a single accidental shot screws up the whole calibration process, and to clear it and be able to start from the beginning again it seems to have to automatically download (at a painfully slow pace of about 1 shot per second) into the pocket topo application so that it can be deleted/discarded. Also I'd be interested to learn how much more numerical emphasis is placed on the first four calibration directions. It's too soon for me to detect a trend, but it seems that even a minor transgression in the later shots can screw up what should otherwise be a reasonable calibration attempt. This appears to be contrary to my interpretation of the instructions. Beat, perhaps you could distribute a synopsis of the calibration theory, the mathematical process and the meaning of the various numbers produced when a calibration is exported. If you've got this far, thanks for spending the time. Bruce

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Re: [Therion] Disto-X Calibration Woes
by Bruce Mutton 03 May '09

03 May '09

Thanks all for your responses, I will work through the practical aspects over the next week. Some initial responses. Yes, I have been in touch with Beat, had some dialog and sent him some calibration files. I am sure he is contemplating... As far as I know this is the only Disto-X in New Zealand, so a second one for comparison is unlikely until this one is working. NZ and Switzerland are on opposite sides of the world, so sending the device to Beat is almost a choice of last resort. I have tried calibrating in two areas that I presume have few magnetic influences with no discernable difference. I have yet to go far far away from civilisation, but of course will have to try this very soon. Bruce

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New snapshot of therion
by Martin Sluka 27 Apr '09

27 Apr '09

Unstable version is 5.2.8, released on Apr 23, 2009. Contains bug fixes, new features (mostly undocumented and subject to change until new stable version is released) and occasionaly introduces new bugs. m.s.

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Ponit Label Alignment
by Bruce Mutton 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

Hi I have had a long standing (at least since version 0.5.1) difficulty with point label text alignment. (Currently using 5.2.7) It seems that if rotate = 0 and the alignment of the scrap in the map editor matches (more or less) the alignment of the scrap in pdf outputs, then commands such as -align right or -align tl are honoured. If however rotate = 70 (for example) or the scrap alignment in the map editor is significantly different to the alignment of the scrap in the pdf outputs then the -align parameters are incorrectly (in my view) applied. The effect of this is to require the user to align scraps and xvi files to match the finished pdf drawing output if text alignment is to be readily controllable. It also makes it nearly impossible to produce a scrap that generates nice labels where it is desired to produce sets of pdf outputs with various orientations. In the attachment I have put together a dataset that starts to demonstrate characteristics of the problem. I have superposed survey station points and point labels so that the alignment can be observed - a clear pattern is observable. You can see that the alignment is based on the orientation in the map editor, not the pdf output. I have added some text that has orientation and applied some distortion to the scrap by misaligning the survey stations, so you can see (another reason) why 'orientation' of point labels is not a good idea - scrap distortions misalign the text a little. While it may seem trivial in this example, on a real map with labels (perhaps at the end of arrows) it tends to make a real mess that can only be resolved by iteration and can not usually be resolved if two or more distinct 'rotations' are required without changing all the point labels positions. Not a feasible proposition. Has anyone else noticed or had difficulty with this behaviour? Is it likely that it can be altered? Regards Bruce

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3D sample
by mara 17 Apr '09

17 Apr '09

Hi everybody, I am no Therion expert but would like to try some 3d modeling; honestly speaking I am having some difficulties. To get a better understanding could some of you send me a sample file with both config and th files so that I can run it and understand little more? Tried to find more info on wiki and therionbook but without success. Thanks for yr help best Mara Arriva Tiscali Mobile! Acquista la tua SIM Tiscali a soli €5 e scopri la semplicità e la convenienza del nuovo servizio per il tuo cellulare. Passa a Tiscali Mobile http://abbonati.tiscali.it/promo/tiscalimobile/

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custumizing lines wall subtype blocks
by Gilbert Fernandes (mailinglist) 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Hello, I tried to custumise the line drawing for Wall subtype blocks but I did not succeed. I try to use the same technique (and syntaxe) used for others kinds of lines but here, it's not a line but a SUBTYPE of line Is it possible ? and what is the syntaxe ? Thanks, Here my code, written in the layout bloc code metapost def l_wall_blocks_PINEE (expr P) = % pickup PenD; % draw P withcolor red; T:=identity; cas := 0; dlzka := arclength P; if dlzka > 0: mojkrok:=adjust_step(dlzka, 1.5u); pickup PenA; forever: t1 := arctime (cas + mojkrok*1/10) of P; t2 := arctime (cas + mojkrok*9/10) of P; q := ((point t1 of P) + .4u * unitvector(thdir(P,t1) rotated -90)) -- (subpath (t1,t2) of P) -- ((point t2 of P) + .4u * unitvector(thdir(P,t2) rotated -90)); thdraw q randomized (u/6); cas := cas + mojkrok; exitif cas > dlzka - (2*mojkrok/3); % for rounding errors endfor; fi; enddef; initsymbol("l_wall_blocks_PINEE"); #symbol-assign line wall_blocks PINEE # let l_wall_blocks = l_wall_blocks_PINEE endcode The symbol-assign command did not work, and the "let l_wall_blocks = l_wall_blocks_PINEE" generate an error on compiling An extract of the logs ####################### metapost log file ######################## This is MetaPost, Version 0.641 (Web2c 7.5.2) (mem=mpost 2004.3.2) 9 APR 2009 10:25 **data.mp (data.mp [4001] [4002] [4003] [4004] [4005] [4006] [4007] ! Extra tokens will be flushed. <to be read again> string mapsymbol->string .s,stype,lname,ID;stype=substring(0,1)of(EXPR0);lname=(EXPR... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I've just read as much of that statement as I could fathom, so a semicolon should have been next. It's very puzzling... but I'll try to get myself back together, by ignoring everything up to the next `;'. Please insert a semicolon now in front of anything that you don't want me to delete. (See Chapter 27 of The METAFONTbook for an example.) > > stype > > "a" ! Equation cannot be performed (numeric=string). <to be read again> ; mapsymbol->...me,ID;stype=substring(0,1)of(EXPR0); lname=(EXPR0)&"_"&(EXPR1);... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm sorry, but I don't know how to make such things equal. (See the two expressions just above the error message.) > > lname > > "a_bedrock_UIS" ! Equation cannot be performed (numeric=string). <to be read again> ; mapsymbol->...of(EXPR0);lname=(EXPR0)&"_"&(EXPR1); ID:="ID_"&lname;if(known.s... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm sorry, but I don't know how to make such things equal. (See the two expressions just above the error message.) > > "ID_" > > lname ! Not implemented: (string)&(unknown numeric). <to be read again> ; mapsymbol->...(EXPR0)&"_"&(EXPR1);ID:="ID_"&lname; if(known.scantokens.ID):if... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm afraid I don't know how to apply that operation to that combination of types. Continue, and I'll return the second argument (see above) as the result of the operation. > > lname ! Not a string. <to be read again> ) mapsymbol->...="ID_"&lname;if(known.scantokens.ID) :if.stype="a":s="def "&(EX... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm going to flush this expression, since scantokens should be followed by a known string. ! A primary expression can't begin with `:'. <inserted text> 0 <to be read again> : mapsymbol->..."ID_"&lname;if(known.scantokens.ID): if.stype="a":s="def "&(EXP... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm afraid I need some sort of value in order to continue, so I've tentatively inserted `0'. You may want to delete this zero and insert something else; see Chapter 27 of The METAFONTbook for an example. ! Missing `)' has been inserted. <to be read again> : mapsymbol->..."ID_"&lname;if(known.scantokens.ID): if.stype="a":s="def "&(EXP... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I found no right delimiter to match a left one. So I've put one in, behind the scenes; this may fix the problem. > > stype > > "a" ! Not implemented: (unknown numeric)=(string). <to be read again> : mapsymbol->...f(known.scantokens.ID):if.stype="a": s="def "&(EXPR0)&" = scant... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm afraid I don't know how to apply that operation to that combination of types. Continue, and I'll return the second argument (see above) as the result of the operation. > > "a" ! Undefined condition will be treated as `false'. <to be read again> : mapsymbol->...f(known.scantokens.ID):if.stype="a": s="def "&(EXPR0)&" = scant... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; The expression shown above should have had a definite true-or-false value. I'm changing it to `false'. > > "let a_bedrock = " > > lname ! Not implemented: (string)&(unknown numeric). <to be read again> & mapsymbol->...";else:s="let "&(EXPR0)&" = "&lname& ";";fi;scantokens.s;elseif... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm afraid I don't know how to apply that operation to that combination of types. Continue, and I'll return the second argument (see above) as the result of the operation. > > lname > > ";" ! Not implemented: (unknown numeric)&(string). <to be read again> ; mapsymbol->...se:s="let "&(EXPR0)&" = "&lname&";"; fi;scantokens.s;elseif(EXP... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I'm afraid I don't know how to apply that operation to that combination of types. Continue, and I'll return the second argument (see above) as the result of the operation. ! Inconsistent equation. <to be read again> ; mapsymbol->...se:s="let "&(EXPR0)&" = "&lname&";"; fi;scantokens.s;elseif(EXP... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; The equation I just read contradicts what was said before. But don't worry; continue and I'll just ignore it. ! Redundant equation. <to be read again> ; mapsymbol->...R0)&" = "&lname&";";fi;scantokens.s; elseif(EXPR2):message("[Wa... l.3748 mapsymbol("a_bedrock","UIS",false) ; I already knew that this equation was true. But perhaps no harm has been done; let's continue.

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symbol?
by Guido Verhoeven 02 Apr '09

02 Apr '09

Hallo Is there a method to represent an area of water that is temporary? I mean: in winter (or when it is very wet) there is water in a part of the cave, in summer there is no water. The water is not streaming. Thank you Verhoeven Guido _________________________________________________________________ Lentekriebels? Speel samen met je vrienden de spelletjes die Windows Live je aanbiedt! http://www.messengerbillboard.be/nl/play

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