February 2011 - Therion

symbol-show fixed points
by Bruce 02 Dec '11

02 Dec '11

Hi All I've been trying to understand symbol-show and symbol-hide a little better as they relate to pdf outputs. How do I display the text associated with fixed points? I have some map objects defined for various caves in a large system. These are comprised of scrap drawings. I also have a map object with the minor surface features nearby, such as sinks, dolines, isolated entrances and significant navigational features such as fence posts or trees (for example). This is comprised of a survey only (mostly fixed points, and no scrap drawings) however and uses flags such as doline or sink, and most points have a text string associated ie. fix 15 2521640 6042938 581 10 10 30 station 15 "Concrete water trough" I would like to show the caves as outlines with all the rest of their symbology turned off, and the surface features with each of the points labelled with appropriate symbol and associated text. This is for an area map, at scales of say 1:5000 or 1:10,000 I can turn the cave symbols off with symbol-hide statements, and so far I think that is working out OK. However. -layout-symbol-show point flag:entrance \ -layout-symbol-show point flag:sink \ -layout-symbol-show point flag:spring \ -layout-symbol-show point flag:doline \ -layout-symbol-show point flag:dig \ The above layout statements cause the special entrance and sink etc symbols to be displayed, AND show the text string associated with the point. These are not displayed by default as far as I can tell, but these statements rectify that. -layout-symbol-show group all And the group all statement has pretty much the same effect in a more comprehensive and compact format. However none of the above enables me to display the text for my "Concrete water trough" example above. It is always just a cross with no text, or with '15' if debug station-names is on. It shows up in Loch, but not in pdfs. So, how do I display the text associated with fixed points? Is there a need for. -layout-symbol-show point fixed . or something similar? Also, sometimes I would like to display the point symbols (for the likes of the above flags) OR the text strings associated with the points, but not both at once. Is there a way of doing this? Thanks Bruce

5 11

Self adjusting label positions and missing point +s
by Bruce 26 Nov '11

26 Nov '11

I have just discovered a wonderous thing. Where surface points in a survey centreline are included in a map, the labels will self organise so that they don't overlap. See example 1 and 2 attached. This effect goes away I think when the points are included in a scrap. It also does not have effect between separate map objects. Is this default therion behaviour, or is it directly inherited from tex? Could it be implemented in outputs derived from scrap drawings? Now on to my short-term deadline question! Why might example 1 have +s in on all the points and example 2 have all the +s missing? I have not done any redefinition of points (unless by accident, and then they should be identical), and I think my symbol-show, symbol-hides are similar (though not the same I admit). Both the images are from the same dataset, just in different regions a few km apart, and also in different parallel branches of the survey structure, so somewhat independent of each other. Both have caves displayed in a similar manner to example 2, it's just that the caves in example 1 were not included in the screenshot. As you can see, the map structure in example 1 is very simple (the old paper cave map was traced in outline only in therion), whereas example 2 has perhaps 100 maps as it is a 15km cave drawn entirely with therion. I have turned off the layers which would have made the image confusing. Any guesses as to which symbol-show (or other statement) directly effects the + part of the point symbol, as I would like to show them in both cases? I'm also still looking for a way to show the labels for fixed points (and leave other point labels unaffected). What is the 'property' that Loch uses to make the distinction in it's data file? Bruce

2 1

plan cross-section
by marco corvi 24 Jun '11

24 Jun '11

seems that cross-section scrap must have a projection `none', which means that therion cannot use stations to scale it "properly". i had to draw a vertical cave, a sequence of pits, one on top of the next. instead of drawing a plan, with plenty of maps shifted to the side, i preferred to draw plan cross-sections nearby the shafts as cross-sections (with a section line marking their position on the pit). i would also like to have one north symbol on the map, to mark the orientation of all the plan cross-sections. i did it fiddling with the sources, but a "more stable" solution is appreciated. thanks for the help, marco

4 6

Re: [Therion] distox
by marco corvi 12 Jun '11

12 Jun '11

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 12:22 +0100, Wookey wrote: > +++ marco corvi [2010-04-14 09:18 +0200]: > > hi wookey, > > Is there any reason you replied off-list? I'm sure this would be > interesting to others. none. i just clicked on the sender name out of abit. > > the work on "my distox programs" is going on. > > you can get the programs and dome docs on the page > > http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/distox/index.htm > > OK. good stuff. I will download, build and test tonight if I can. > > > important catch: > > my programs are meant to work with single survey. > > i rely on therion for the full cave(s) survey. > > also i do not have a portable device to take in the > > cave, so i do not focus much on working on-line, > > but on working off-line. > > OK. I do, so maybe I can help with that. I think it's important to get > something like the pocketopo functionality on non-windows devices. agree. any help is very much appreciated. > > recent changes (besides bug fixes), > > added pockettopo import/export (beat told me the file format > > and we had an email exchange about how to address the > > programs interoperability), > > worked on compass export, and therion export. > > reorganized some of the code. > > not sure these are all online. > > OK. What's the deal with the calibration algorithm? Having that remain > secret is going to be a problem. I thought the device could do its > own calibration, but apparently it needs an external app? Perhaps we > can adapt the SAP calibration code (which is Free) as it must be very > similar. as far as i read, beat algo is better. beat should have a paper published soon in CREG describing the algo. i believe that when it is published i can put my reimplementation in the sources. > What do you have and what have you agreed not to disclose? If > it's just the code then re-implementation via an explanation of the > algorithm should be fine. > > > i was considering dropping the QT3 support and work only > > with QT4 (better classes and easier interfaces). > > OK. I guess that is the way forward now. I guess that could be a > problem for GTK-based devices with limited storage. yes. marco

4 9

Therion has been translated into Bulgarian
by Александър Янев 18 Apr '11

18 Apr '11

Hi, I and my frend Ivo Tachev make translation of Therion program into Bulgarian, but I could not compile it to fix errors that appear in actual work with the program. I tried compiling under Ubuntu, but out errors that I could not fix. However, my programming is too badly. If any of you would like, please do. deb package or installer for Windows, include the translation in Bulgarian, which can be found in attachments. Thanks Alexander Yanev

3 7

Inkscape import/export plugins
by Thomas Holder 09 Mar '11

09 Mar '11

Hi all, I wrote import and export plugins for Inkscape to edit th2-files. This is particular useful to remaster existing therion-drawings with the convenience of a quite modern vector-graphics application. The therion line/point type annotation is stored in the object label (Object Properties Dialog) and can also be altered with dialogs from "Extensions > Therion > Set..." menus. Download: http://www.thomas-holder.de/projects/inkscape-speleo/extensions/th2-latest.… Unsupported is the editing of lines with line point options, since there is no concept in SVG for this. Such lines will be marked as read-only on import. I will be happy for any feedback (if it works, if you find it useful). Cheers, Thomas Note: An earlier version of the export plugin has already been published on the therion wiki at http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=inkscape but is obsolete with the new import/export plugin set.

5 14

Lox Model showing walls from wrong side
by Andrew Atkinson 26 Feb '11

26 Feb '11

I've branched this from Converting Inkscape Drawings of very large caves intoTherion: I have experienced the stretch using 2 points, and where I have tried this is always solved by adding more points and scraps were needed, but the inside out part I do get more often. I have tried splitting into more scraps, and splitting the lines. The former works totally or reduces the incorrect bit, however a side affect is that the model is not as neat as it should be as the lox model has a 'step' on the scrap join. As demonstrated by the 2 attached set of files. But currently all this is a bit random, and the moving to a new scrap is very tedious, it would be good to have some understanding of the problems, so they could be avoided? Andrew On 24/02/11 18:47, Bruce wrote: >>Simple scrap, but why does my lox model appear to only show the walls > when seen from the wrong side? > >>I have checked that the wall lines all have the yellow tick pointing > inside the passage. But half my passage appears in the Loch viewer to > only show the wall from the inside face, not from outside the model. > >>Very simple data file contents are as follows. The survey stations are > being imported from a survex 3D file. But I am only using 2 survey > points to scale the scrap, so you should be able to create any two > points to substitute the survey data. > > I have done this with scanned paper files a number of times. > > Always if I use two points the lox files come out as you describe, or > with vertical extensions from the actual cave position to the surface. > > A solution that has worked once, but not tested yet on the others is two > break the drawing into more than one scrap, and have at least two points > per scrap. This way the therion drawings and lox come out the same as > with a conventional survey. > > It seems that two points, one scrap is too minimalist for the current > implementation. > > Bruce > >

6 13

Converting Inkscape Drawings of very large caves into Therion
by Footleg 25 Feb '11

25 Feb '11

After an excellent and most educational workshop on Therion run by Andrew Atkinson last weekend, I have finally started to get my teeth into the program. What I am attempting to do is find a way to convert surveys drawn up in other software into Therion projects without having to redraw everything. My current aim is to get the passage walls in so that I can build various models from my surveys. So far I have learned enough to get the passage walls from Inkscape into a th2 file using the Inkscape plug-in. The difficulties now come in deciding how to break these very large surveys up into managable size pieces. The XTherion map editor is unmanageably slow when I import the entire cave into a single th2 file. Right now I've not got specific questions and am finding my way OK. But I wonder has anyone already written any help on how to do what I am trying to do? Especially when to split parts of the cave into separate scraps, and how to make sure that maps drawn in separate th2 files join smoothly in the model? Some tips and guidance would be very useful to avoid pitfalls. So if someone can point me at some help (I've not managed to find any on the wiki) that would be great. If none exists then I will start making notes so that I can contribute what I learn to the wiki as an example. Footleg

5 8

web lox viewer
by Andrew Atkinson 24 Feb '11

24 Feb '11

Hi all for those of you sensible enough not to follow the ukcaving forum, this looks like a really good start to make surveys more available on the web. I have copied the writer, Chris hunter, in as he is not on the list. I personally would like to avoid flash. As I understand it, it is only a proof of concept at the moment, but Chris would welcome comments, and I hope he is planning to develop it further http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=11492.0 Andrew

1 0

grid alignment rotation
by Graham Mullan 17 Feb '11

17 Feb '11

Ben We've had similar problems, notably with some of Willie's data where he applied a correction that encompassed both compass error and declination. The result suggested was to insert a line declination 0 degree which zero's the declination correction. One can then add a line such as calibrate compass +11.5 in our circumstances, not needed in yours where the alignment with grid north has already been made. As far as UFS is concerned, it's also worth noting that Therion recognises the local grid so you can use cs: OSGB:ST Graham

2 1