Converting Inkscape Drawings of very large caves into Therion
After an excellent and most educational workshop on Therion run by Andrew Atkinson last weekend, I have finally started to get my teeth into the program. What I am attempting to do is find a way to convert surveys drawn up in other software into Therion projects without having to redraw everything. My current aim is to get the passage walls in so that I can build various models from my surveys. So far I have learned enough to get the passage walls from Inkscape into a th2 file using the Inkscape plug-in. The difficulties now come in deciding how to break these very large surveys up into managable size pieces. The XTherion map editor is unmanageably slow when I import the entire cave into a single th2 file. Right now I've not got specific questions and am finding my way OK. But I wonder has anyone already written any help on how to do what I am trying to do? Especially when to split parts of the cave into separate scraps, and how to make sure that maps drawn in separate th2 files join smoothly in the model? Some tips and guidance would be very useful to avoid pitfalls. So if someone can point me at some help (I've not managed to find any on the wiki) that would be great. If none exists then I will start making notes so that I can contribute what I learn to the wiki as an example. Footleg
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:56:57 +0000, Footleg <drfootleg@gmail.com> wrote:
After an excellent and most educational workshop on Therion run by Andrew Atkinson last weekend, I have finally started to get my teeth into the program. What I am attempting to do is find a way to convert surveys drawn up in other software into Therion projects without having to redraw everything. My current aim is to get the passage walls in so that I can build various models from my surveys. So far I have learned enough to get the passage walls from Inkscape into a th2 file using the Inkscape plug-in. The difficulties now come in deciding how to break these very large surveys up into managable size pieces. The XTherion map editor is unmanageably slow when I import the entire cave into a single th2 file.
Right now I've not got specific questions and am finding my way OK. But I wonder has anyone already written any help on how to do what I am trying to do? Especially when to split parts of the cave into separate scraps, and how to make sure that maps drawn in separate th2 files join smoothly in the model? Some tips and guidance would be very useful to avoid pitfalls. So if someone can point me at some help (I've not managed to find any on the wiki) that would be great. If none exists then I will start making notes so that I can contribute what I learn to the wiki as an example.
Footleg
There are I think only 3 simple rules: 1. one scrap should not overlap itself 2. one scrap scrap should not contain more then approx. 100 m of passages in 1:100 scale (MetaPost limit) 3. passages should be divided into scraps in most simple places - if you will follow this recommendation then "equate scrap1 scrap2" is enough for joining two scraps. L.
sorry "equate scrap1 scrap2" should be "join scrap1 scrap2" L. On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:44:57 +0200, Ladislav Blažek <lada@blazcata.cz> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:56:57 +0000, Footleg <drfootleg@gmail.com> wrote:
After an excellent and most educational workshop on Therion run by Andrew Atkinson last weekend, I have finally started to get my teeth into the program. What I am attempting to do is find a way to convert surveys drawn up in other software into Therion projects without having to redraw everything. My current aim is to get the passage walls in so that I can build various models from my surveys. So far I have learned enough to get the passage walls from Inkscape into a th2 file using the Inkscape plug-in. The difficulties now come in deciding how to break these very large surveys up into managable size pieces. The XTherion map editor is unmanageably slow when I import the entire cave into a single th2 file.
Right now I've not got specific questions and am finding my way OK. But I wonder has anyone already written any help on how to do what I am trying to do? Especially when to split parts of the cave into separate scraps, and how to make sure that maps drawn in separate th2 files join smoothly in the model? Some tips and guidance would be very useful to avoid pitfalls. So if someone can point me at some help (I've not managed to find any on the wiki) that would be great. If none exists then I will start making notes so that I can contribute what I learn to the wiki as an example.
Footleg
There are I think only 3 simple rules:
1. one scrap should not overlap itself 2. one scrap scrap should not contain more then approx. 100 m of passages in 1:100 scale (MetaPost limit) 3. passages should be divided into scraps in most simple places - if you will follow this recommendation then "equate scrap1 scrap2" is enough for joining two scraps.
L.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Simple scrap, but why does my lox model appear to only show the walls when seen from the wrong side? I have checked that the wall lines all have the yellow tick pointing inside the passage. But half my passage appears in the Loch viewer to only show the wall from the inside face, not from outside the model. Very simple data file contents are as follows. The survey stations are being imported from a survex 3D file. But I am only using 2 survey points to scale the scrap, so you should be able to create any two points to substitute the survey data. My .th file: survey Riano import 0105_Riano.3d -surveys use input b1test.th2 map testPlan -title "2 Bits Plan" layer4 endmap My .th2 file: scrap layer4 -scale [0 0 523.199340 0 0.0 0.0 3.69169454304 0.0 m] line wall -reverse on 44.9189860557 120.676295946 43.8167113174 118.156721113 42.77 115.46 40.5097156066 110.12588637 37.89 103.96 37.3604977044 104.142020156 35.155929094 97.843153938 33.2663023999 92.3318940289 33.91 92.17 32.3214986198 86.5055632498 30.6 80.36 29.802162424 80.521767902 28.6997147723 74.3805079852 28.0698521998 71.3885394452 27.92 71.39 28.0698521998 68.3966417712 28.23 65.25 27.7549109922 64.7747440897 29.172126938 62.0979172857 31.0617529235 58.1612321987 32.0065574122 58.3185550353 35.4708703016 55.4841219302 39.7225167216 51.8624368471 40.0376308426 52.3349014197 44.9189860557 49.5003265823 48.8558641815 47.1382163175 49.3282756385 47.7682871913 52.792435457 44.9338540862 57.3590223759 41.469704438 57.5164926254 41.3120272708 60.6658650158 36.4303421724 63.9727069471 31.2341531333 63.3428252406 30.7616885606 65.3899221842 24.7776806143 67.1220786289 19.7387435456 67.751961044 19.7387435456 68.3819759788 14.5422001757 69.1691791157 8.24368828857 68.0668831177 4.93679061083 68.0668831177 1.78742836805 smooth off endline line wall 44.9189860557 120.676295946 46.4938444556 123.983122758 47.4386489444 127.762414142 51.0602790123 133.903603193 55.3120785032 141.61965053 56.14 141.12 61.1382764728 148.548091558 66.53 156.55 66.21 156.72 71.8461414665 164.610044508 76.44 171.05 75.87 171.61 81.294250134 177.364887182 83.59 179.8 85.2309780236 180.514320291 86.4908789168 181.616714005 smooth off endline line wall 86.4908789168 181.616714005 87.4356947442 181.931714009 88.380503485 182.718965987 90.1125075674 182.561501418 94.364171704 182.246501414 95.151508778 181.774107708 98.458342914 178.939674603 100.97768407 176.577635204 99.92 175.35 102.080134557 172.483485548 105.27 168.26 105.39 168.23 109.481154076 164.924973646 113.58 161.62 113.575346546 161.618146834 118.299404423 159.098572001 122.393426814 157.051532606 123.023455213 157.996320019 126.960339008 155.791816055 129.479673078 154.217099501 130.267180231 154.37456407 131.526769313 152.012524671 132.943985967 149.492878971 132.314127647 149.020485265 132.471599314 145.871264754 132.786521387 142.09197337 130.581967659 140.674792251 132.471599314 138.155288283 133.731337215 136.265713457 134.99 136.53 137.668213923 136.265713457 139.87 136.05 140.2 136.08 142.234651315 136.895359134 144.14 137.66 144.596669623 138.785004826 145.384027957 139.415004834 smooth off endline line wall 145.384027957 139.415004834 146.801237525 141.934650534 148.218454179 144.611548204 151.210203249 149.650485273 154.044806637 154.0594932 153.572391637 154.531886906 157.036711613 158.311107424 160.343545749 161.933217704 160.343545749 162.562934247 164.752660292 164.610044508 167.587093601 165.869831925 168.02 166.58 171.208729338 165.869831925 171.75 165.75 173.570917726 165.082438215 175.145606047 165.869831925 177.822560602 167.129406744 177.8 168.09 179.239777257 170.908768994 181.26 174.86 180.02728441 175.47524149 181.601823912 179.884532882 183.01903348 183.978682538 183.176505146 183.821076237 184.908658048 187.915367625 188.687914271 196.418525208 188.215506357 196.733666944 192.782085481 204.922037121 195.931462123 210.590903332 195.931462123 210.7483679 200.18312626 215.787375835 203.33233991 219.72391919 203.962361223 219.251525484 207.426844191 223.030887734 211.67818943 227.440037393 211.520866582 227.59736023 215.457594472 232.32158076 219.394301101 236.888053256 220.339124015 236.415588683 223.330865999 241.612202919 227.110278127 247.753462836 226.165455213 248.383391977 228.842586934 255.312045604 231.204300518 261.295770086 231.04697767 261.295770086 233.409024326 267.279565434 235.298804799 272.161321398 234.35382598 272.790967075 237.345723869 276.885045865 241.124973005 282.396801837 242.03 282.13 247.423875109 286.333345192 249.91 288.27 251.51791876 288.852778293 252.777663747 289.797636572 smooth off endline line wall -reverse on 140.030239318 171.538698135 141.919559162 172.483485548 144.124282969 173.113485556 147.746039179 175.317918654 155.462023292 180.041997451 156.091881612 179.884532882 162.390478991 186.498186505 166.799763614 191.064800734 166.51 191.52 169.634196923 197.048596081 173.91 204.59 172.311172738 205.394430828 176.720443187 212.795478161 181.129408912 220.353919198 181.286880578 220.511383766 187.428325189 226.810179118 194.199302135 234.053549284 196.1 232.47 202.702616235 239.880092662 206.34 243.96 206.324400791 244.289029723 208.844060845 249.170714821 211.67818943 255.154510169 211.205774429 255.469297575 213.095406084 261.92584096 214.827714891 267.909494575 213.567792738 268.381888282 216.087459879 274.05061276 219.394301101 282.081660101 219.46 282.8 225.535745712 289.167778297 232.38 296.34 233.56631174 295.309038213 242.069803006 300.820439855 244.274349647 302.23769184 245.5342718 302.867691848 246.636396302 303.497408391 smooth off endline line wall -reverse on 85.5460772627 198.3081709 87.5930175921 197.993383494 89.9550359007 198.623312636 93.8917637903 197.048596081 100.97768407 194.371627545 101.135311643 193.584092103 106.804192434 188.387832197 111.213151072 184.293469943 109.796246228 182.718965987 114.362697793 178.939674603 119.559319489 174.530454077 120.07 174.51 126.487924008 172.483485548 131.57 170.88 131.84 171.1 137.19580601 171.223698132 138.61 171.26 139.242746339 171.538698135 140.030239318 171.538698135 smooth off endline line wall -reverse on 9.17360084912 76.4274056478 9.48854205667 78.6321222098 9.71 80.98 10.7481332648 85.4032404019 12.55 93.1 12.6377599589 93.1194294715 15.3150277428 100.520335073 18.6218703827 109.495815496 19.04 109.29 23.0308531152 118.156721113 25.49 123.62 26.8100873696 126.187555855 28.0698521998 128.864666124 smooth off endline line wall -reverse on 1.77256368429 51.232720304 2.5599162071 51.8624368471 3.97713165682 52.1775785831 5.23687657364 53.7520825392 7.12650390555 56.2715865066 6.73 56.72 7.59891465389 59.7357361548 8.46 62.71 8.22877793513 62.727775561 8.70118939212 65.7195315027 9.17360084912 71.0736103075 9.01613059967 73.7506497099 9.17360084912 76.4274056478 smooth off endline line wall -reverse on 28.0698521998 128.864666124 31.5341459552 134.060926029 34.84 139.42 41.9269308438 149.650485273 50.11 161.46 50.1154553897 161.460823998 58.7762376131 172.955879255 63.5002961987 179.097139172 63.3428252406 179.254462008 68.539295992 184.923469951 73.1057305487 189.962336153 72.82 190.56 78.1450577435 194.528950382 81.48 197.01 83.656296789 197.363383487 85.5460772627 198.3081709 smooth off endline line survey 33.2664753133 126.817343264 86.963130925 196.733312613 endline point 249.785758772 298.143187854 station -name 0105_riano.entrance.806 point 13.1103259041 42.7289957918 station -name 0105_riano.entrance.802 line survey 13.1103259041 42.7289957918 33.2664753133 126.817343264 endline line survey 86.963130925 196.733312613 143.336924636 142.406760776 endline line survey 143.336924636 142.406760776 249.785758772 298.143187854 endline endscrap 2011/2/24 Ladislav Blažek <lada@blazcata.cz>
sorry "equate scrap1 scrap2" should be "join scrap1 scrap2"
L.
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:44:57 +0200, Ladislav Blažek <lada@blazcata.cz> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:56:57 +0000, Footleg <drfootleg@gmail.com> wrote:
After an excellent and most educational workshop on Therion run by Andrew Atkinson last weekend, I have finally started to get my teeth into the program. What I am attempting to do is find a way to convert surveys drawn up in other software into Therion projects without having to redraw everything. My current aim is to get the passage walls in so that I can build various models from my surveys. So far I have learned enough to get the passage walls from Inkscape into a th2 file using the Inkscape plug-in. The difficulties now come in deciding how to break these very large surveys up into managable size pieces. The XTherion map editor is unmanageably slow when I import the entire cave into a single th2 file.
Right now I've not got specific questions and am finding my way OK. But I wonder has anyone already written any help on how to do what I am trying to do? Especially when to split parts of the cave into separate scraps, and how to make sure that maps drawn in separate th2 files join smoothly in the model? Some tips and guidance would be very useful to avoid pitfalls. So if someone can point me at some help (I've not managed to find any on the wiki) that would be great. If none exists then I will start making notes so that I can contribute what I learn to the wiki as an example.
Footleg
There are I think only 3 simple rules:
1. one scrap should not overlap itself 2. one scrap scrap should not contain more then approx. 100 m of passages in 1:100 scale (MetaPost limit) 3. passages should be divided into scraps in most simple places - if you will follow this recommendation then "equate scrap1 scrap2" is enough for joining two scraps.
L.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Simple scrap, but why does my lox model appear to only show the walls when seen from the wrong side?
I have checked that the wall lines all have the yellow tick pointing inside the passage. But half my passage appears in the Loch viewer to only show the wall from the inside face, not from outside the model.
Very simple data file contents are as follows. The survey stations are being imported from a survex 3D file. But I am only using 2 survey points to scale the scrap, so you should be able to create any two points to substitute the survey data.
I have done this with scanned paper files a number of times. Always if I use two points the lox files come out as you describe, or with vertical extensions from the actual cave position to the surface. A solution that has worked once, but not tested yet on the others is two break the drawing into more than one scrap, and have at least two points per scrap. This way the therion drawings and lox come out the same as with a conventional survey. It seems that two points, one scrap is too minimalist for the current implementation. Bruce
Thanks Bruce, I'll try that. In my case I had 3 scraps, each with 2 points. But the scrap I emailed the data from was in a separate .th2 file to the other two. The two scraps in the other .th2 file displayed fine. I am trying to import passage details drawn in another drawing package (via Inkscape) so I started with a few really simple scraps to test out my idea of how to do so. I assumed that I only needed two survey points in order to orientate and scale each scrap correctly. I'll try adding some more points (tomorrow, as I left the data on a computer at work) and see if that fixes the model. Footleg On 24 February 2011 18:47, Bruce <dangle@tomo.co.nz> wrote:
Simple scrap, but why does my lox model appear to only show the walls when seen from the wrong side?
I have checked that the wall lines all have the yellow tick pointing inside the passage. But half my passage appears in the Loch viewer to only show the wall from the inside face, not from outside the model.
Very simple data file contents are as follows. The survey stations are being imported from a survex 3D file. But I am only using 2 survey points to scale the scrap, so you should be able to create any two points to substitute the survey data.
I have done this with scanned paper files a number of times.
Always if I use two points the lox files come out as you describe, or with vertical extensions from the actual cave position to the surface.
A solution that has worked once, but not tested yet on the others is two break the drawing into more than one scrap, and have at least two points per scrap. This way the therion drawings and lox come out the same as with a conventional survey.
It seems that two points, one scrap is too minimalist for the current implementation.
Bruce
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
There are I think only 3 simple rules:
1. one scrap should not overlap itself 2. one scrap scrap should not contain more then approx. 100 m of passages in 1:100 scale (MetaPost limit) 3. passages should be divided into scraps in most simple places - if you will follow this recommendation then "equate scrap1 scrap2" is enough for joining two scraps.
What do you do if a passage branches out vertically, meaning one branch is completely covered by the other? The lower passages has to be drawn in its own scrap because of the overlap and the division must be directly at the junction, so it is impossible to follow rule 3. Regards Beat
There are I think only 3 simple rules:
1. one scrap should not overlap itself 2. one scrap scrap should not contain more then approx. 100 m of passages in 1:100 scale (MetaPost limit) 3. passages should be divided into scraps in most simple places - if you will follow this recommendation then "join scrap1 scrap2" is enough for joining two scraps.
What do you do if a passage branches out vertically, meaning one branch is completely covered by the other? The lower passages has to be drawn in its own scrap because of the overlap and the division must be directly at the junction, so it is impossible to follow rule 3.
In this case there is no need for a join (unless you really want to). Just draw two scraps and in the map define like... topscrap break bottomscrap Bruce
That is fine for the plan, but does it work for the model, I still have some not right joins in my model, not fully got my head round these Andrew On 25/02/11 05:54, Bruce wrote:
What do you do if a passage branches out vertically, meaning one branch is completely covered by the other? The lower passages has to be drawn in its own scrap because of the overlap and the division must be directly at the junction, so it is impossible to follow rule 3. In this case there is no need for a join (unless you really want to). Just draw two scraps and in the map define like... topscrap break bottomscrap Bruce
participants (5)
-
Andrew Atkinson -
Beat Heeb -
Bruce -
Footleg -
Ladislav Blažek