November 2020 - Therion

map-connection does not display if map is both offset and not offset
by Bruce Mutton 15 Nov '20

15 Nov '20

Thanks for the suggestion Marco. I think what you suggest is what I was already doing, however I decided to try yet another level of hierarchical separation, but it also did not work. However I think the effect you are pointing me to is what is in-play here https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/mapconnectors?s[]=offset <https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/mapconnectors?s%5b%5d=offset> I’ll tinker with it some more… For me it is really only a debug process while I am drawing, so it is best if it soes not require special structures to activate and deactivate. Bruce From: Therion <therion-bounces(a)speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Marco Corvi Sent: Monday, 16 November 2020 09:07 To: therion(a)speleo.sk Subject: Re: [Therion] : map-connection does not display if map is both offset and not offset @bruce that was a nice remark. i think that if you put scrap1 in map1 and scrap2 in map2, and then combine in a final map containing map1 map2 […] above/below map2 and select the final map, then you get scrap1 and scrap2 in place, and also scrap2 offseted and the map-connection line marco I just discovered some behaviour that I did not expect. When a scrap has a point map-connection, any exports of that scrap have a dotted line from the 'true' location of the point map-location to the 'offset' location. Right? These two examples show what is expected. The first with a single copy of an offset map, and the second with two offset copies of the map. However, if there is also a copy of the map that is not offset, then all of the map-connection points are hidden. I tried using the -visibility on option for the point map-connection, that that had no effect. The image below shows an example of this behaviour. Although it is not very often that I want to show a map both in its proper location and offset, it seems to me that one should be able to do it and also have the map-connection points display properly for the offset maps. Is this a bug perhaps? Bruce

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Re: [Therion] : map-connection does not display if map is both offset and not offset
by Marco Corvi 15 Nov '20

15 Nov '20

@bruce that was a nice remark. i think that if you put scrap1 in map1 and scrap2 in map2, and then combine in a final map containing map1 map2 […] above/below map2 and select the final map, then you get scrap1 and scrap2 in place, and also scrap2 offseted and the map-connection line marco > I just discovered some behaviour that I did not expect. > > When a scrap has a point map-connection, any exports of that scrap have a > dotted line from the 'true' location of the point map-location to the > 'offset' location. Right? > > These two examples show what is expected. The first with a single copy of > an offset map, and the second with two offset copies of the map. > > However, if there is also a copy of the map that is not offset, then all of > the map-connection points are hidden. I tried using the -visibility on > option for the point map-connection, that that had no effect. > > The image below shows an example of this behaviour. > > > > Although it is not very often that I want to show a map both in its proper > location and offset, it seems to me that one should be able to do it and > also have the map-connection points display properly for the offset maps. > > Is this a bug perhaps? > > > > Bruce > >

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Colorizing sections of centerline
by Alvaro Aguilera 15 Nov '20

15 Nov '20

Hello everyone, is there a way to change the color of different sections of the centerline? I'm at the stickmap-stage of the survey and it would be really helpful to put some colors to it. Regards Alvaro

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Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed passage
by Ben Cooper 15 Nov '20

15 Nov '20

Hi Alistair I would definitely link all the survey centrelines. The implication is that you have some errors in the survey, but you know that the straight mine level needs to be straight so the error isn’t there. One thing you could try is to set the SD for the level to be very low, and the SD for the rest of the cave to be quite high. When Therion distributes the error, most of this should go to the survey sections either the highest SD, and the level should be less distorted. Best regards Ben Sent from my iPhone > On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:49, alastair gott <alastairgott(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > HI Therion people, > > I'm helping with a project we've got a cave/mine system with a really straight mine level for one of the entrances, which we have the centreline data for (but no sketches to show where the points are). > > When the system was joined up together with all the entrances there was a kink in the mine level. so to counteract this, I removed some of the unknown survey points in the centre of the level and hung the survey on some points at the beginning and end of the level. > > I now want to add in a section of cave in the centre of the level. I have connected this quite well in a map at a lower level with just the one entrance coordinates in it, but when I run the full map with all the entrances in, the model then tries to remove the loop error by doing it's statisical wizardry. > > Unfortunately in doing so, it shifts the start of the level (the entrance) to the east. and then leaves the section of cave out unconnected. > > If anyone can help, then the config for the full system is here: http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_m… > > This is what I get: > > <image.png> > > > the config for the one entrance coordinate is here: > http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_m… > > and these are the two selects if you want to run it at the lower level: > select bottomless_pit.speedwell_mine > select oakden_level.speedwell_mine > This is what I want: > > <image.png> > > > > If I add in a survey point to hook it to, then I get this: > <image.png> > > > Rather than this: > <image.png> > > > Adding in more survey points further down the passage to the south only increases the amount of distortion in a small space of passage. as there are three loop closures at the bottom of the picture [just below the red circle) which the model is running (i've just not included the maps on the drawing for clarity). > > > Regards, > Alastair Gott. > > AlastairGott(a)hotmail.com, > M: 07931779380. > _______________________________________________ > Therion mailing list > Therion(a)speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

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map-connection does not display if map is both offset and not offset
by Bruce Mutton 15 Nov '20

15 Nov '20

I just discovered some behaviour that I did not expect. When a scrap has a point map-connection, any exports of that scrap have a dotted line from the 'true' location of the point map-location to the 'offset' location. Right? These two examples show what is expected. The first with a single copy of an offset map, and the second with two offset copies of the map. However, if there is also a copy of the map that is not offset, then all of the map-connection points are hidden. I tried using the -visibility on option for the point map-connection, that that had no effect. The image below shows an example of this behaviour. Although it is not very often that I want to show a map both in its proper location and offset, it seems to me that one should be able to do it and also have the map-connection points display properly for the offset maps. Is this a bug perhaps? Bruce

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Blended colour by gradient?
by alastair gott 14 Nov '20

14 Nov '20

Hi therion users, One of my friends has asked me whether it’s possible to colour an elevation survey by a blended gradient rather than a discrete scrap by scrap basis. I thought about it, but I don’t have the expertise in metapost, would it be possible to metapost a gradient which is predefined one colour through the normal rainbow of therion colours to the final colour and then bound this by the top and bottom of the cave. Then insert this gradient as a fill cave fg user. Just a thought? I know John Stevens has some good success with the Agen allwedd survey in South Wales (uk) but I think his solution relied upon the 1 colour for one scrap method, though my memory could be wrong. Regards, Alastair Gott, Alastairgott(a)hotmail.com Sent from my iPhone

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Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed passage
by alastair gott 14 Nov '20

14 Nov '20

HI Therion people, I'm helping with a project we've got a cave/mine system with a really straight mine level for one of the entrances, which we have the centreline data for (but no sketches to show where the points are). When the system was joined up together with all the entrances there was a kink in the mine level. so to counteract this, I removed some of the unknown survey points in the centre of the level and hung the survey on some points at the beginning and end of the level. I now want to add in a section of cave in the centre of the level. I have connected this quite well in a map at a lower level with just the one entrance coordinates in it, but when I run the full map with all the entrances in, the model then tries to remove the loop error by doing it's statisical wizardry. Unfortunately in doing so, it shifts the start of the level (the entrance) to the east. and then leaves the section of cave out unconnected. If anyone can help, then the config for the full system is here: http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_m… This is what I get: [cid:cf9af856-bce2-41b6-859d-eaf9ad834135] the config for the one entrance coordinate is here: http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_m… and these are the two selects if you want to run it at the lower level: select bottomless_pit.speedwell_mine select oakden_level.speedwell_mine This is what I want: [cid:5cd571d7-989c-4c14-bc4f-70f62c960ee6] If I add in a survey point to hook it to, then I get this: [cid:23a6877d-ee5f-4234-a4d7-6c0914272d98] Rather than this: [cid:6489090d-0c10-442e-8bf6-885e301e1cc0] Adding in more survey points further down the passage to the south only increases the amount of distortion in a small space of passage. as there are three loop closures at the bottom of the picture [just below the red circle) which the model is running (i've just not included the maps on the drawing for clarity). Regards, Alastair Gott. AlastairGott(a)hotmail.com, M: 07931779380.

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Symbol assign - use metapost def instead
by Bruce Mutton 02 Nov '20

02 Nov '20

I have done exactly that, but with conjectural water to be shown with the permanent water symbol. Need to use a little metapost in your layout... #replace conjectural waterflow symbol with permanent symbol to improve visibility code metapost def l_waterflow_conjectural (expr Path) = l_waterflow_permanent_UIS (Path); enddef; endcode You need to do a similar thing with the definition of your debris and presumed wall lines to show instead as bedrock. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Therion <therion-bounces(a)speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Pavel Herich Sent: Monday, 2 November 2020 20:27 To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] Symbol assign Hi, when exporting maps to a large scale, I´d like to assign wall:debris, wall:presumed etc. to just "wall". "Symbol-assign line wall:debris wall:bedrock" in config file doesn´t work, any idea? Thank you Pavel _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion(a)speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion

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Therion/Survex <=> COMPASS conversion
by Evaristo Quiroga 02 Nov '20

02 Nov '20

Hi, I have been a COMPASS user the last two decades. Four years ago I have switched to Therion for the mainly tasks, but I need also powerful COMPASS tools like: * Blunder and gross errors detection: https://www.fountainware.com/compass/HTML_Help/Project_Manager/findblunders… * Complex Plotting: https://www.fountainware.com/compass/HTML_Help/Compass_Viewer/complexplot.h… * Graph Tools: https://www.fountainware.com/compass/HTML_Help/Compass_Viewer/graphtools.htm To can use this tools and need to convert files: " .th" --> " .dat" and Export from Therion to ".plt" To use "COMPASS Viewer", where are the graph and complex plotting tools, I need ".plt" files. Therion export directly to ".plt" but don't use Compass surveys and sections. A Therion survey is equivalent to Compass section. And Therion centerline is equivalent to Compass survey. All the data exported from Therion to .plt are in only one Compass Section/survey. And the export option "-disable splay-shots" do anything, the ".plt" have always the splay shots. An other approach is to export to ".3d". From AVEN I can disable the splays an export to ".plt". The files have the same problem, don't export the data by surveys. Actually I am exporting to ".3d". In AVEN I disable splay shoots, and select one survey and export. I repeat for all surveys. After I copy&paste all the data to one only file, and do two tweaks to have a good ".plt" to work with "Compass Viewer tools". It would be much more efficient to be able to export Therion models directly to .plt files, with Compass section and survey. I really only need to export in one of the concepts (section or survey) the Therion surveys to be able to use the tools. To import Compass ".dat" files to Therion ".th" I use Auriga or Topodroid. It's fine. Searching in the mail Archive I have found Torsten have made a excel macro tool too. https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg07339.html The inverse conversion is more problematic. Topodroid do a similar Therion/Survey approach, and put all the data in only one survey. Here is very important to have all the data in surveys (centerline) and sections (survey), with its survey date and fix station or declination. To be able to use the Blunder detection tool I will have to reconstruct by hand all the header information of the survey (date and fix station or declination). I'm doing tests with Auriga, but for now I don't have good results either. Regards, Evaristo.

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copyright for survey centrelines not recognised
by Bruce Mutton 02 Nov '20

02 Nov '20

For many years I have been adding a copyright date and text string to each of my scraps and survey centrelines. Always the same text string, and the date according to when the scrap and centreline was created. Always with the same result - a statistic in the pdf export that includes the string and a date range. Just now I broke with tradition, and added a new string to a centreline. To my surprise the new copyright did not appear in the output. After a little experimentation I have come to come tentative conclusions. 1. Copyrights added to survey centrelines are not added to the statistics in pdf exports that include only survey centrelines. 2. Copyrights added to survey centrelines are not added to the statistics in pdf exports that include maps. 3. Copyright strings (different to the majority) added to scraps in large projects may not be added to statistics in pdf exports. In smaller projects they are however. 4. Copyrights sorting in the pdf output is unpredictable. It is not according to spelling A to Z, but changing the spelling changes the output sorting. It is not according to date, changing the date does not change the sort order. In all these examples, there are a number of scraps with "NZSS" as the copyright string, and there is only one example of the other string ("NSG" or "caves.org.nz" respectively. So the sort order is also not related to the number of instances of the same string, because sometimes NZSS sorts first, and sometimes last. Any one have insights or experience with this?

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