September 2015 - Therion

Therion on OSX 10.11 pre-release
by Christian Sandrini 15 Sep '15

15 Sep '15

Hi For the one that can not wait and want to install therion on the new 10.11 (El Capitan) pre-release. There is a few things that may fail 1. Permission problems with brew. Somehow permissions got changed on my install. The fix was sudo chown -R `whoami` /usr/local cd /usr/local git reset --hard origin/master brew update 2. You need Xcode 7 Beta. Download and install it. Then sudo xcode-select -switch /Applications/Xcode-beta.app/Contents/Developer/ sudo xcodebuild -license 3. Now you should be ready to install therion brew install therion Good luck Chris

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Re: [Therion] Best caving tablet (Rob Countess)
by Dave Clucas 15 Sep '15

15 Sep '15

I use a Trimble Recon. Rugged and waterproof but expensive. I've used it for many years now without any problems. Dave Clucas daveclucas.com <http://daveclucas.com/> sarawak-caves.com <http://sarawak-caves.com/> dave.clucas(a)icloud.com <mailto:daveclucas@icloud.com> Exploring the World - One cave at a time > On 15 Sep 2015, at 02:54, therion-request(a)speleo.sk wrote: > > Best caving tablet (Rob Countess)

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Degree symbol at size 40
by Andrew Atkinson 14 Sep '15

14 Sep '15

Hi all I have wasted far too much time on this... hope someone can help On http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/tex with the title Add thedegree symbol (°) to the map-comment (Stacho Mudrak) \comment={\vbox{\halign{#\hfil\cr\thfa Coordinates: $30\,^{\circ}$ \cr Line 2 of map comment.\cr}}{}} Which works fine But I am trying to make the tex lots larger for a A00 survey so tried \def\maplayout{ \legendbox{0}{100}{SW}{ \comment{Projected elevation looking towards $15\,^{\circ}$ (up page on plan)} \size[40]\the\comment } Which works but the $s seem to make the text small and a different font, I think. Tried to remove the $s but to no avail. How do I make the degree symbol the correct size for my font? Andrew

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Possible Bug - join
by Andrew Atkinson 13 Sep '15

13 Sep '15

I am working on a bit of a maze cave, and was merrily doing the joining, when I found one that I could not get to work, even when using line points, so bodged it and moved on. the next one did not work either. This started to make me a little suspicious. In the end, I moved the join commands higher up the file (this was not the first thing I tried by a long way) and both joins then worked. I can find no logic to this, when I move the joins up, others that become get pushed down, still seem to work. The joins are in Reads.th, the thconfig in the reads folder selects only the relevant maps to make it easier to see. Whole dataset is at http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Burrington/ it is in version 412, the 2 that do not work have comments after them, lines 143 and 144 Running on Debian Therion 5.3.15, I happen to have a windows box for use today, and the same thing happens on that. Adding more joins after and they seem to work. My worry is that moving the ones that do work to a place that they do, might break some other joins, that I cannot find. Andrew

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line tracing
by Andrew Atkinson 12 Sep '15

12 Sep '15

In the map editor, under edit line there is the option Trace Line. What does it do, I cannot seem to get it to do anything, cannot find any help on the wiki or book. Just thought it might be useful as I sometimes have to copy a line to make a boundary in a scrap be the same as a line in the scrap above? thanks Andrew

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Re: [Therion] Data Management
by Steven Tucker 09 Sep '15

09 Sep '15

Hi everyone, I really like the idea of a Therion Tutorial. Another caver and I started using Therion about a year ago and we were probably the first in South Africa to use Therion. We also didn't know about this mailing list, so with no one to ask advice from some of the easiest things to do became major headaches. We would be stuck on something for days and once we found out, it was often a single line entry that needed to be included and was a very simple fix. A tuturial to assist people with most of the basics will be briliant to help people who are new to Therion. It will also avoid people asking "basic" questions over and over again on this forum. Something I found very useful when learning to use Therion were examples and other people's data. Just being able to look through other data gave solutions to the problems I had and often better or easier methods than what I was using at the time. So, yes please do a tuturial if someone can! Steven

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Commenting stations for interleaved data - Bug?
by Andrew Atkinson 09 Sep '15

09 Sep '15

Hi Just been entering (well making up) some interleaved diving data, and for a few of the stations I would like to put a comment for the reading so I tried data diving station count depth ignoreall newline compass ignoreall calibrate depth 0 -1 #makes depths positive; 3 is deeper than 2 0 0 0 180 Taken from splay into sump in Skeleton.th 1 8 3 Depth read by AA on previous dive 100 2 11 1 80 3 14 1 140 Taken from reverse of splay of 319 into sump in Skeleton2.th 4 25 0 Line belay It appears that I cannot have an ignoreall before the newline, as it complains that not all data for given style removing the ignoreall before the newline and adding as comment works, eg data diving station count depth newline compass ignoreall calibrate depth 0 -1 #makes depths positive 3 is deeper than 2 0 0 0 180 Taken from splay into sump in Skeleton.th 1 8 3 #Depth read by AA on previous dive 100 2 11 1 80 3 14 1 140 Taken from reverse of splay of 319 into sump in Skeleton2.th 4 25 0 #Line belay Testing the first data entry in Survex works, so it looks like it is a bug in Therion implementation of interleaved data, if my interpretation is correct thanks Andrew

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Re: [Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson)
by Bruce Mutton 09 Sep '15

09 Sep '15

RobFor collaborative projects you would be much better to use a version control package such as bazaar, git or mercurial. Dropbox and similar cloud does not allow people to work on the same files simultaneously and maintain integrity of data or track changes.I am otherwise occupied so no time to explain further.Bruce Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: Rob Countess <rob.countess(a)gmail.com> Date: 09/09/2015 01:34 (GMT+05:45) To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson) I would love any and all tutorials. I am still a newbie. Any information I can glean about how to use Therion is helpful. I fully understand that it is a flexible and powerful program and that info in any tutorial is just one possible way to use Therion. I found installing it on my Mac OSX quite a complex process but it somehow magically produced a working program. I am converting data over from other programs, Walls and On Station and this has been quite straight forward. I have about 60% of my data converted over but have yet to draw anything on Therion but that is the goal. The caves I am working on were mostly surveyed and drawn with pen and paper in the 1980's. Now they have doubled in length roughly but no comprehensive maps have been produced just snippets of new passage. I would like to use the dropbox approach to manage projects with multiple surveyors and cartographers and hopefully convert some other caver's to Therion. Right now On Station is the main program people use and maps are mostly hand drawn or sometimes Illustrator. There is about 10 km of new passage to draw and 20 km total with redrawing old stuff. More than a one man job so using dropbox with 3 or 4 of us mapping sounds wonderful. I also have a DistoX2 coming and I am looking to convert to paperless surveying in the future. I think GoPro, Disto, tablet should make it possible. I am not completely useless with technology but I am not fluent in Geek. Rob On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Nick Bairstow <Nick(a)pff.uk.com> wrote: Dave has been my personal tutor for the last 2/3 weeks and has got me flying along with things. I can not thank him enough for the not inconsiderable time and effort he has put in with me. He sorted my file structure and checked and corrected lots of my data some of which is available to view using the dropbox link. Be warned files have been flying in and out of that dropbox so some of the stuffs a bit messy. I have been giving some thought to producing a tutorial to follow on from Footlegs wiki item. Unfortunately it's not a simple as I first thought. Over the next few months I will attempt to come up with something that will enable a novice therioneer understand the next steps following the Footleg wiki article. It would be nice to continue using Bull Pot as the sample cave but I have not got time to re-survey that so I propose we use an existing data set which could become the default novice reference. It seems many people give up with Therion as it is difficult to learn but with a good tutorial and a little help many more could be using it. What do people think, am I wasting my time, comments please. Oh and if someone else is already doing something similar please shout up. No point doing it twice. Nick. ________________________________________ From: therion-bounces(a)speleo.sk [therion-bounces(a)speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Dave Clucas [dave.clucas(a)icloud.com] Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 7:55 AM To: therion(a)speleo.sk Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson) I helped Nick with his problen. To see how it's done have a look at the sample data we worked on https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lmpe35x3mhy7kp8/AADED3GW7KpiAFVKR1q-zxEsa?dl=0 Any queries contact me. Dave Clucas daveclucas.com<http://daveclucas.com> sarawak-caves.com<http://sarawak-caves.com> dave.clucas(a)icloud.com<mailto:daveclucas@icloud.com> Exploring the World - One cave at a time On 19 Aug 2015, at 12:44, therion-request(a)speleo.sk<mailto:therion-request@speleo.sk> wrote: Send Therion mailing list submissions to therion(a)speleo.sk<mailto:therion@speleo.sk> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to therion-request(a)speleo.sk You can reach the person managing the list at therion-owner(a)speleo.sk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Therion digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Data Management (Adam Sampson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:14:36 -0400 From: Adam Sampson <caver.adam(a)outlook.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management To: Therion List <therion(a)speleo.sk> Message-ID: <BAY180-W56328E211DF3B6F9D873AF98670(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Please do let us know what you figure out. Martin helped me figure out how to have my surveys in a sub-folder of my main survey, but so far I'm only doing one cave. Would like to hear how to add the other area caves to the same output. Adam Sampson(502)509-5066caver.adam@outlook.comwww.kentuckykarstconservancy.com From: Nick(a)pff.uk.com To: therion(a)speleo.sk Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:31:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management Andrew, Martin, Rowena, Thanks for the replies. What I clearly don?t understand are the basic building blocks of Therion, folder structures etc Dave C has kindly offered to look at my stuff and advise so hopefully I will sort this out soon. I suspect I am at a point that a lot of folk get to in their Therion leaning curve so once I get my head round this I may write a wiki article about this from a novice point of view. It really should be a continuation of Footlegs excellent tutorial which I have referred to many times over the last few months. Andrew, files will be in the registry by the end of the day I promises. Thanks once again all Nick. From: therion-bounces(a)speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka Sent: 19 August 2015 08:38 To: List for Therion users Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management Nick, thbook: ? -d ? Turn on debugging mode. The current implementation creates a temporary directory named thTMPDIR (in your system temporary directory) and does not delete any temporary files. may you run therion with -d parameter and check the files inside the folder thTMPDIR? May you send me both the log from therion and that folder thTMPDIR zipped? m. 19. 8. 2015 v 5:20, rowena_l(a)tpg.com.au: hello, I have successfully created an area PDF for the 70+ caves in my area of interest in Australia, using Therion. Can you give more details of what your result is giving? eg is an error being displayed, can you produce a .3d file or .lox file of the survey legs, are you able to see a pdf created that is missing data? ----- Original Message ----- From: "List for Therion users" <therion(a)speleo.sk> To: "List for Therion users" <therion(a)speleo.sk> Cc: Sent: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:01:45 +0100 Subject: [Therion] Data Management Hi all, After lots of trial and error I am now producing some good outputs of individual caves but now I have hit a wall. I believe I?m not getting the data management correct. Here?s what I do, I have a folder for the area/system in that folder I have other folders for the individual caves; this is where my Top Parser produced th2 .th and config files first landed. I also have all the Therion produced outputs in these files. So far so good I think. All works well, good outputs from pdf?s to kml?s. Now I want to produce a pdf of the area/system using these separate caves but try as hard as I may I?m just not succeeding. I have read all the stuff on the wiki over and over and checked back though this mailing list but all my attempts at this output have failed. Next plan of attack was to look at other people?s data in the Cave Registry Data Archive which helped and I now see how the .th and config files should look but I am still missing something some where. I keep seeing snatches of info about index files but can find no definitive instruction on how to use them. I realise this problem probable has a simple solution and given enough time I am sure I can work it out but life?s too short to dick about for hours especially when someone out there has the answer. Also I have a deadline looming on some of these maps and I?m now getting a bit worried I will not make it. Any help would be appreciated and if anyone in the Yorkshire area wants to compare notes (I?m sure that there are more numptys like me out there) I will travel and bring beer. Nick. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion(a)speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion(a)speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

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Re: [Therion] Data Management (Adam Sampson)
by Dave Clucas 08 Sep '15

08 Sep '15

I helped Nick with his problen. To see how it's done have a look at the sample data we worked on https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lmpe35x3mhy7kp8/AADED3GW7KpiAFVKR1q-zxEsa?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lmpe35x3mhy7kp8/AADED3GW7KpiAFVKR1q-zxEsa?dl=0> Any queries contact me. Dave Clucas daveclucas.com <http://daveclucas.com/> sarawak-caves.com <http://sarawak-caves.com/> dave.clucas(a)icloud.com <mailto:daveclucas@icloud.com> Exploring the World - One cave at a time > On 19 Aug 2015, at 12:44, therion-request(a)speleo.sk wrote: > > Send Therion mailing list submissions to > therion(a)speleo.sk > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > therion-request(a)speleo.sk > > You can reach the person managing the list at > therion-owner(a)speleo.sk > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Therion digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Data Management (Adam Sampson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:14:36 -0400 > From: Adam Sampson <caver.adam(a)outlook.com> > Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management > To: Therion List <therion(a)speleo.sk> > Message-ID: <BAY180-W56328E211DF3B6F9D873AF98670(a)phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Please do let us know what you figure out. Martin helped me figure out how to have my surveys in a sub-folder of my main survey, but so far I'm only doing one cave. Would like to hear how to add the other area caves to the same output. > > Adam Sampson(502)509-5066caver.adam@outlook.comwww.kentuckykarstconservancy.com > > From: Nick(a)pff.uk.com > To: therion(a)speleo.sk > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:31:32 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Therion] Data Management > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew, Martin, Rowena, > > Thanks for the replies. What I clearly don?t > understand are the basic building blocks of Therion, folder structures etc > > Dave C has kindly offered to look at my > stuff and advise so hopefully I will sort this out soon. > > I suspect I am at a point that a lot of > folk get to in their Therion leaning curve so once I get my head round this I > may write a wiki article about this from a novice point of view. It really should > be a continuation of Footlegs excellent tutorial which I have referred to many > times over the last few months. > > Andrew, files will be in the registry by > the end of the day I promises. > > > > Thanks once again all > > > > Nick. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > therion-bounces(a)speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka > > Sent: 19 August 2015 08:38 > > To: List > for Therion users > > Subject: Re: [Therion] Data > Management > > > > > > Nick, > > > > > > > > > > thbook: > > > > > > > > ? -d ? > Turn on debugging mode. The current implementation creates a temporary > directory > > > > > > named thTMPDIR (in > your system temporary directory) and does not delete any > > > > > > temporary files. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may you run therion with -d parameter and check the files inside > the folder thTMPDIR? > > > > > > > > > > > > May you send me both the log from therion and that folder thTMPDIR > zipped? > > > > > > > > > > > > m. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 19. 8. 2015 v 5:20, rowena_l(a)tpg.com.au: > > > > > > > > > > > > hello, > > > > > > > > > > I have successfully created an area PDF for the > 70+ caves in my area of interest in Australia, using Therion. > > > > > > Can you give more details of what your result is giving? > eg is an error being displayed, can you produce a .3d file or .lox file of the > survey legs, are you able to see a pdf created that is missing data? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: > > > > "List > for Therion users" <therion(a)speleo.sk> > > > > > > > > To: > > > > "List for Therion users" > <therion(a)speleo.sk> > > > > Cc: > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > > Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:01:45 +0100 > > > > Subject: > > > > [Therion] Data Management > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > After lots > of trial and error I am now producing some good outputs of individual caves but > now I have hit a wall. I believe I?m not getting the data management correct. > > > > > > > > Here?s what > I do, I have a folder for the area/system in that folder I have other folders > for the individual caves; this is where my Top Parser produced th2 .th and > config files first landed. I also have all the Therion produced outputs in > these files. > > > > > > > > So far so > good I think. All works well, good outputs from pdf?s to kml?s. Now I want to > produce a pdf of the area/system using these separate caves but try as hard as > I may I?m just not succeeding. > > > > > > > > I have read > all the stuff on the wiki over and over and checked back though this mailing > list but all my attempts at this output have failed. Next plan of attack was to > look at other people?s data in the Cave Registry Data Archive which helped and > I now see how the .th and config files should look but I am still missing > something some where. > > > > > > > > I keep seeing > snatches of info about index files but can find no definitive instruction on > how to use them. > > > > > > > > I realise > this problem probable has a simple solution and given enough time I am sure I > can work it out but life?s too short to dick about for hours especially when > someone out there has the answer. Also I have a deadline looming on some of > these maps and I?m now getting a bit worried I will not make it. > > > > > > > > Any help > would be appreciated and if anyone in the Yorkshire > area wants to compare notes (I?m sure that there are more numptys like me out > there) I will travel and bring beer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion(a)speleo.sk > > http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Therion mailing list > Therion(a)speleo.sk > http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion >

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Therion tutorial
by Graham Mullan 08 Sep '15

08 Sep '15

Nick Bairstow wrote: "I have been giving some thought to producing a tutorial to follow on from Footlegs wiki item. Unfortunately it's not a simple as I first thought. Over the next few months I will attempt to come up with something that will enable a novice therioneer understand the next steps following the Footleg wiki article. It would be nice to continue using Bull Pot as the sample cave but I have not got time to re-survey that so I propose we use an existing data set which could become the default novice reference. It seems many people give up with Therion as it is difficult to learn but with a good tutorial and a little help many more could be using it. What do people think, am I wasting my time, comments please. Oh and if someone else is already doing something similar please shout up. No point doing it twice." I use Footleg's tutorial a lot. If you are not using a program every day, then having a handy known reference point for the details is always a good thing. It doesn't cover every single aspect, so if Nick wants to add further material, I for one would be delighted. Please do it, Nick. The other main trick for learning in this way is "How did we do this last time?" or looking back at a previous data set, your own or someone else's, and seeing how it works. If there was a reference data set available (if not on the Therion wiki but on the cave-registry page, perhaps) then the tutorial could certainly link to that. Of course 'live' data can change over time, so having a fixed example set might be better. Bear in mind that data for a single cave is insufficient to cover all problems. We routinely combine data from different caves, because they are close together or, as has been done several times, to produce a context overview to show a cave in relation to its neighbours and the land surface. See, for example, the thing below the caption in the latest version of the Gough's Cave survey http://www.ubss.org.uk/resources/surveys/survex/Goughs_all.pdf . Does anyone have a good multi-cave dataset that is now stable and so can be used for this purpose? It is also worth remembering, of course, that different people do some things differently, an example data set might enshrine work habits that are not the same as mine or yours. Graham

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