September 2015 - Therion

"\legendbox" "\loadpicture" and absolute paths
by rowena 14 Mar '21

14 Mar '21

Hello, I am using the "\loadpicture" capability in "\legendbox" constructs to include map sections, elevations, etc. It all works nicely on my PC where I am using relative paths to the pdf files. My club has a desire to archive the map data for posterity - ie if my pc dies or I go walkabout, the map data should still be available so that others can add to the maps as they are extended. I would prefer to have the images included using relative pathnames, rather than absolute pathnames, so that future explorers can download the map data and extend it, without having to duplicate my file hierarchy. How can I include relative paths in the \loadpicture functionality? Thanks, Rowena

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Import a scrap into another scrap (or th2-file)
by torstein finnesand 11 Oct '17

11 Oct '17

Hi fellows, Sometimes I realize that two scraps should have been one (for instance scrap A in A.th2 should have been a part of scrap B in B.th2), in particular when it's difficult to join them. It's easy to insert the xvi file into the scrap B file. But I have to draw it again. Is there any workaround here? Torstein Finnesand Norway

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Best practice - orientation of original sketch?
by Bill Gee 26 Dec '15

26 Dec '15

Hello everyone - This is not really a Therion question. It is more of a general survey question. Therion is sort of involved in the situation, though ... When you are drawing the sketch in the cave, is it normal to ALWAYS make north the same direction on each sheet of paper? What is considered "best practice" in this regard? Background: I have been helping with survey of a cave that has grown to slightly over 5000 feet as of a week ago. I have been both sketching and doing cartography. Therion is my weapon of choice! :-) At least 6 people have done some part of the sketching in this cave. All of us have oriented our sketches so as to best fit each section of cave onto the paper. We always indicate north, but it can be any edge of the paper. The man who is coordinating the project is also doing cartography using Windows tools (Walls, Xara, etc.) He sent me an email today asking if I will commit to making all future sketches with north being the top of the page. He asks because some of the computer work he does results in portions of the sketch being upside-down and therefore more difficult to read. Thanks - Bill Gee

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Therion's Loch features (incognito) on NZ TV
by Bruce 19 Oct '15

19 Oct '15

Loch model of 39 km cave features in this TV news clip at 3:47 (Me carrying two packs on the opening still, and stuck at 2:00) http://www.3news.co.nz/Deepest-cave-discovered-in-our-backyard/tabid/817/art icleID/330973/Default.aspx Centreline data has been processed for the last few(?) decades with a home-made unix application that uses proprietary routines, so will only live while Jonathan is with his current employer. As you might have guessed, an 'export to Therion' routine is being worked on. Bruce

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Re: [Therion] Grid coord label placement problems
by Bruce Mutton 30 Sep '15

30 Sep '15

Absolutely agree Jenny. But no solution at my end.And the issues compound when the plan is rotated on the page. For me the first solution to find is to get each component of the coordinate to align parallel with it's gridline. I have searched for the code that controls this in the past without luck.Bruce Sent from my Samsung device

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Re: [Therion] error
by Rob Countess 30 Sep '15

30 Sep '15

So I fixed it. There was a loop in the survey I was not aware of (I didnt survey it) the notes were not drawn to scale so it wasnt apparent. Talked to one of the cavers on the trip who sorted it out. On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Rob Countess <rob.countess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Done. Please post more Facebook links of gorgeous women ;-) > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Martin Sluka <martinsluka(a)mac.com> wrote: > >> Please, send me full data set. >> >> Martin >> > >

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Grid coord label placement problems
by Jenny Black 30 Sep '15

30 Sep '15

Hi, I've been having some problems getting grid labels to appear how I want around my survey. I've put some examples on my ftp site so you can see what I mean. The files mentioned below can all be found: ftp://ftp.gns.cri.nz/incoming/JennyB/therion/ . To add a grid and some coordinate labels, I added: grid bottom grid-coords border to my thconfig file. The grid itself is plotted as I expect, but the coordinates are not quite how I would like them. I've played around a bit and there appear to be two problems (neither of which I know how to fix!): 1. the coordinates don't exactly appear on the border - they seem to be plotted on the crosshair point that is closest to, but outside of, the survey. The pdf output isn't extended to included these. Sometimes this is OK, because the legend is outside of the survey area so these numbers are visible (2004-01-plan.pdf). Other times, the numbers are either not visible at all, or clipped (e.g. 2004-01-plan-original.pdf - the number on the East and West axes are clipped, those on the North axis are completely off the page, and those on the South axis are sufficiently far from the survey they interfere with the legend). Whilst I can work around this by use of grid-size and with placing objects like the legend in suitable places (e.g. 2004-01-plan.pdf), this isn't going to look as nice, especially for: 107-plan.pdf, where you currently don't see numbers on any axis except the west, and then only the final two digits. - Is there a way to extend the output page to include these coordinates so that they aren't clipped (as happens automatically for the map and legend)? - Is it possible to plot the numbers on the edge of the survey rather than the nearest crosshair point? - can I specify which axes they appear on (e.g. I'd like to see them on the South and West, but not North and East) 2. The coordinates are plotted in the form: (x,y) along each axis, I'd like to only show the x coordinates on the x axis, and the y coordinates on the y axis (with no brackets or comma). Is this customisable in the thconfig file? I can't see anything in the thbook or mailing lists about how to solve these problems, but I'm sure other people have had them too, and I'm missing something, I just don't know what! I get the same output on windows 7 with therion 5.3.15 and linux with therion 5.3.16. I hope that I have explained this clearly enough, but please let me know if not. Thanks, Jenny

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Error - cant figure it out
by Rob Countess 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

So I get an error when I try to compile this cave. I just added a new survey. A few stations were missing. It all compiled properly. When I added the stations I get this error output. If I comment out survey legs 72-73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80 then everything compiles properly. Output and th file follow. Rob therion 5.3.16 initialization file: /usr/local/etc/therion.ini reading ... done configuration file: thconfig.thconfig reading ... done reading source files ... done preprocessing database ... done output coordinate system: UTM9 meridian convergence (deg): -1.6174 geomag declinations (deg): 1982.1.1 23.0300 1983.1.1 22.9182 1984.1.1 22.8065 1985.1.1 22.6947 1986.1.1 22.5800 1987.1.1 22.4652 1988.1.1 22.3504 1989.1.1 22.2355 1990.1.1 22.1205 1991.1.1 21.9916 1992.1.1 21.8627 1993.1.1 21.7339 1994.1.1 21.6052 1995.1.1 21.4765 1996.1.1 21.3119 1997.1.1 21.1472 1998.1.1 20.9827 1999.1.1 20.8181 2000.1.1 20.6535 2001.1.1 20.4500 2002.1.1 20.2465 2003.1.1 20.0430 2004.1.1 19.8394 2005.1.1 19.6359 2006.1.1 19.4264 2007.1.1 19.2167 2008.1.1 19.0069 2009.1.1 18.7970 2010.1.1 18.5869 2011.1.1 18.3842 2012.1.1 18.1812 2013.1.1 17.9779 2014.1.1 17.7744 2015.1.1 17.5706 2016.1.1 17.3972 scanning centreline tree ... done searching for centerline loops ... done calculating station coordinates ... done average loop error: 0.41% calculating basic statistics ... done processing extended elevation ... done processing references ... done selecting export objects ... done processing projection plan ... done writing Resonance.xvi ... done writing ResonancePlan.pdf ... ####################### metapost log file ######################## This is MetaPost, version 1.902 (TeX Live 2014) (kpathsea version 6.2.0) 28 SEP 2015 22:40 **data.mp (/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/metapost/base/mpost.mp (/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/metapost/base/plain.mp Preloading the plain mem file, version 1.005) ) (./data.mp [4001] [4002] [4003] [4004] [4005] [4006] [4007] [4008] [4009] [4010] [4011] [4012] ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6213 ...e(((602.97,-3964.48) -- (607.41,-4140.07 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6223 l_survey_cave(((607.41,-4140.07 ) -- (534.29,-4105.11))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6223 ...e(((607.41,-4140.07) -- (534.29,-4105.11 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6228 l_survey_cave(((607.41,-4140.07 ) -- (602.97,-3964.48))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6233 l_survey_cave(((534.29,-4105.11 ) -- (527.64,-4072.27))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6238 l_survey_cave(((534.29,-4105.11 ) -- (607.41,-4140.07))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.6238 ...e(((534.29,-4105.11) -- (607.41,-4140.07 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.6248 ...e(((527.64,-4072.27) -- (534.29,-4105.11 ))); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07 ),1,0,""); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4140.07). p_station->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); if(EXPR1)=4:p_station_fixed((EXPR0))el... l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4140.07). p_station_temporary->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); pickup.PenD;p:=(-0.2u,0)--(0... p_station->...XPR1)=1:p_station_temporary((EXPR0)) fi;path.path_cave;path_cav... l.8598 p_station((607.41,-4140.07),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.8601 p_station((534.29,-4105.11 ),1,0,""); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4105.11). p_station->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); if(EXPR1)=4:p_station_fixed((EXPR0))el... l.8601 p_station((534.29,-4105.11),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Value is too large (-4105.11). p_station_temporary->T:=identity.shifted(EXPR0); pickup.PenD;p:=(-0.2u,0)--(0... p_station->...XPR1)=1:p_station_temporary((EXPR0)) fi;path.path_cave;path_cav... l.8601 p_station((534.29,-4105.11),1,0,"") ; The equation I just processed has given some variable a value outside of the safetyp range. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) [1] ! Number is too large (4140.07). l.9419 ...ar53 \mainfont{} etex, (607.41, -4140.07 ), 0.0, 7); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) ! Number is too large (4105.11). l.9421 ...ar54 \mainfont{} etex, (534.29, -4105.11 ), 0.0, 7); It is at least 4096. Continue and I'll try to cope with that big value; but it might be dangerous. (Set warningcheck:=0 to suppress this message.) [2] [3] (./mptextmp.mp) [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] ) Here is how much of MetaPost's memory you used: 31576 strings using 1002058 characters 3154088 bytes of node memory 1401 symbolic tokens 8i,81n,16p,233b,5f stack positions out of 16i,96n,20p,250b,6f 26 output files written: data.1 .. data.4012 #################### end of metapost log file #################### therion: error -- metapost exit code -- 512 writing xtherion file ... done ================================================================== Here is the data file ======================================================== survey FarSide2 -title "FarSide2" centerline cs UTM9 data normal from to length compass clino date 2015.09.15 team "Peter Curtis" team "Alisa Vanderberg" team "Kevin Huntington" 40 41 29.1 0 -90 41 42 12.5 028 -27 42 43 14.4 355 -17 43 44 13.7 234 9 44 45 13.8 177 32 45 46 5.63 228 22 46 47 9.3 212 -6 47 48 4.6 218 47 48 49 3.6 196 2 43 50 3.9 089 -12 50 51 1.8 36 19 51 52 10.2 094 -16 52 53 1.51 183 2 53 54 9.3 249 11 53 55 8.1 084 -7 55 56 8.75 152 2 56 57 9.65 16 -1 57 58 3.62 9 -52 58 59 3.46 341 -53 59 60 4.86 322 -7 60 61 4.34 009 -2 61 62 12.19 334 -9 62 63 4.07 264 11 63 64 4.48 248 4 64 65 2.59 267 13 65 66 6 304 7 66 67 5 284 2 67 68 9.83 039 -24 68 69 1.8 3 4 62 70 10.91 330 4 69 71 4.93 338 -11 71 72 2.57 58 -16 72 73 5.0 339 -27 73 74 4.43 34 -4 74 75 4.44 088 -24 75 76 9.1 121 -43 76 77 13.4 63 -27 77 78 6.79 99 -57 78 79 10.35 096 -72 79 80 8.2 93 -17 endcenterline endsurvey

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Best caving tablet
by Rob Countess 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

I posted this on cave chat.org but no replies: So I'm awaiting shipment of my DistoX2. I've never used one before. I am trying to figure out what the best tablet is to use with it. I am using Therion but I am new to that as well. I used to use Walls and before that On Station. I have zero experience with paperless cave surveying. I have never used Pocketopo or Topodroid which makes it hard to decide between windows or android. Topodroid seems to be set up well for use with Therion, but again I have no idea; I've never used an android device only iPhone and iPad. I see the new ipad pro has a stylus - are there cave survey/disto apps that run on iPad? A new windows surface pro3 tablet seems like a good idea but are there good waterproof cases? Xperia Z4 tablet claims IP68 - can it handle a cave without a case? I can't seem to find any suitable rugged cases for it. If price was not a factor what set up would you use? Thanks

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Re: [Therion] Coloring on a altitude basis
by Bruce Mutton 28 Sep '15

28 Sep '15

I don't have a specific solution for you, except to say that I adjusted my expectations in this regard early in my Therion career. I also like to match plan and elevation colours. I am always conscious when drawing plan and elevation scraps of any slight changes in elevation. When there is a change, I start a new scrap. I found it quite easy to adjust to this way of working, although it probably helps to have multiple monitors (as with any drawing package). There is not a precise match between plan and elevation but I have learned to accept it. Short scraps have other advantages if you ever need to rearrange map configurations in the future.Bruce Sent from my Samsung device -------- Original message -------- From: Marco Menchise <marco.menchise(a)gmail.com> Date: 28/09/2015 12:54 (GMT+05:45) To: List for Therion users <therion(a)speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] Coloring on a altitude basis Hello, I searched in the archives and I didn't find an answer. I like to make plan and extended sections colored by altitude because this is a way to add a "3rd dimension" to a plan drawing. I also like to have the same color in the same cave region either in plan and extended section. This way makes very easy to identify same portions of a cave in both projections. Because Therion colors on scrap basis, I'm forced to draw plan and extended section using the same scrap subdivision. This is a very complex operation and it's not always simple to have the same scrap structure in both projections. Is there a way or a trick to color by altitude, maybe defining an "altitude step" to change colors? Thanks,Marco

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