Hi Martin - When I try this, I get a compile error in Therion. It says that the target of the select command cannot be found. I made up a simple data set to illustrate what I get. The files are attached. What I want to get is to split the elevations across multiple PDF files. From there I can place the files on the plan map. Regards - Bill Gee On Monday, November 10, 2014 21:43:53 Martin Sluka wrote:

What is the problem?

map_ext_1.map -projection extended scrap_ext_1 scrap_ext_2 endmap

map_ext_2.map -projection extended scrap_ext_3 scrap_ext_4 endmap

map_ext_3.map -projection extended scrap_ext_5 scrap_ext_6 endmap

map_ext_all.map -projection extended map_ext_1.map map_ext_2.map break map_ext_3.map endmap

In thconfig:

select map_ext_all.map

…

10. 11. 2014 v 20:55, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:

...

Hello everyone -

I am working on a map where the cave makes a T-junction. I have an elevation working for the passage from the entrance to the junction. Now I want to make a NEW elevation map for each arm of the T.

I think the secret I am missing is how to specify the scraps to be included in a specific layout. I included sections of the thconfig and main.th file below.

The output I get is two identical elevation maps which include all of the elevation scraps. What I want is two (or more) elevation maps each of which includes only a few scraps.

The main map will then include each of the elevation maps as "map-image" lines. These will go in different positions so they match up to the portion of the plan they illustrate.

Looking through the Therion Book, I see that scraps can have an index (page 20). Do I need to assign different indexes to the scraps depending on which elevation they go with?

Thanks - Bill Gee

From the .th file: ################### # Plan map joins join Entrance1 EntranceConnector join EntranceConnector Entrance2 join Entrance2 TJunction1 join TJunction1 TJunction2 join TJunction2 TJunction3

# Profile map joins - Entrance passage join Elevation1 Elevation2 join Elevation2 Elevation3 join Elevation3 Elevation4 join Elevation4 Elevation5 join Elevation5 Elevation6

#Profile map joins - C side passage join ElevationB1-C2 ElevationC2-C5 ##################

From the thconfig file: ################## # This layout is for the elevation profile layout profilemap

units imperial scale 1 200 color map-fg [90 66 46] legend off symbol-set UIS map-header 0 0 off

endlayout

# This layout is for the elevation profile layout profilemap2

units imperial scale 1 200 color map-fg [90 66 46] legend off symbol-set UIS map-header 0 0 off

endlayout

# Entrance passage elevations export map -proj elevation -layout profilemap -o MillCreekCaveElevation.pdf

# C side passage elevations export map -proj elevation -layout profilemap2 -o MillCreekCaveElevation2.pdf

export map -proj plan -layout mainmap -o MillCreekCave.pdf ##################

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Hi Martin - Yes, these files will produce a PDF. There are two problems. 1) The Therion compiler issues two warnings. These come from the select statements: ============ calculating station coordinates ... done calculating basic statistics ... done processing extended elevation ... done processing references ... done selecting export objects ... therion: warning -- thconfig [57] -- object not found -- "AllElevations.map" therion: warning -- thconfig [60] -- object not found -- "pdp" done processing projection extended ... done average distortion: 5.52% writing PracticeElevation1.pdf ... ======================== 2) The result I want is to have TWO separate files for elevations, one for each of the scraps. As it is, the system will only produce one file. If I add another export command, it makes two identical files. Regards - Bill Gee On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 22:18:29 Martin Sluka wrote:

11. 11. 2014 v 21:54, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:

...

When I try this, I get a compile error in Therion. It says that the target of the select command cannot be found.

Hi Bill,

it worked for me:

Hi Bill I think I see your problem. I will potter around with the example you sent to demonstrate what I think you want, but maybe not tonight. For now, you can avoid the 'object not found' error by double clicking on the survey or map item on the right-hand side of XTherion. For example it places... select AllElevations.map@PracticeCave ...at the cursor position in the th-config file. And, if you select multiple maps of one projection, they will all be used in the export for that projection. -Plan is a projection -Extended is a projection (developed or straightened out elevation) see http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/faq#projections_plan_elevation_extend ed_and_none -Elevation is a default for [elevation 000 deg] ie 'looking north'. So assuming there are 360 degrees in a circle there are 360 different elevation projections. If all your elevations have the same projection, all the elevation maps will end up in the same pdf (unless you modify the th-config between runs or use multiple th-configs as Rowena suggests). I will modify your example to demonstrate using two elevation projections (without resorting to indexes). Bruce -----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bill Gee Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2014 8:50 a.m. To: 'List for Therion users' Subject: Re: [Therion] Multiple elevation maps Hi Bruce - The first thing I see in your reply is mention of "extended" projection. I used "elevation" as the projection type on all of my elevation scraps. Is that wrong? The Therion book is not clear about the difference. I have read Martin's reply several times, but it is rather terse and I am having trouble understanding what he is saying. There is something simple I am missing. Thanks - Bill Gee On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 19:12:47 Bruce wrote:

Bill

I am not sure if all your elevations have the same projection (ie extended), or if you are using different projections or each arm of the Tee (for example 000 deg looking at the top arm of the Tee, and 270 deg looking at the vertical of the Tee).

However regardless, defining maps as Martin suggests is the path you should take to gaining control.

The only reason I have found to use projection indexes is where you intentionally draw scraps of the same projection that are incompatible in some way, such that you would never want to mix those scraps in the same export;

- ie you draw say two plans optimised for very different scales, and you would never mix the 'big scale' version with the 'small scale' version, or more credibly,

- you have two versions of an extended elevation centreline (different extend left/right etc) for the same survey legs and so these will need quite different and incompatible scraps to be drawn.

Therion treats each projection index as a completely different projection, so you cannot mix projections with differing indexes any more than you can mix plan and elevation within the same export statement.

Bruce

-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bill Gee Sent: Tuesday, 11 November 2014 8:56 a.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: [Therion] Multiple elevation maps

Hello everyone -

I am working on a map where the cave makes a T-junction. I have an elevation

working for the passage from the entrance to the junction. Now I want to make

a NEW elevation map for each arm of the T.

I think the secret I am missing is how to specify the scraps to be included in

a specific layout. I included sections of the thconfig and main.th file below.

The output I get is two identical elevation maps which include all of the

elevation scraps. What I want is two (or more) elevation maps each of which

includes only a few scraps.

The main map will then include each of the elevation maps as "map-image"

lines. These will go in different positions so they match up to the portion of

the plan they illustrate.

Looking through the Therion Book, I see that scraps can have an index (page

20). Do I need to assign different indexes to the scraps depending on which

elevation they go with?

Thanks - Bill Gee

...

From the .th file: ###################

# Plan map joins

join Entrance1 EntranceConnector

join EntranceConnector Entrance2

join Entrance2 TJunction1

join TJunction1 TJunction2

join TJunction2 TJunction3

# Profile map joins - Entrance passage

join Elevation1 Elevation2

join Elevation2 Elevation3

join Elevation3 Elevation4

join Elevation4 Elevation5

join Elevation5 Elevation6

#Profile map joins - C side passage

join ElevationB1-C2 ElevationC2-C5

##################

...

From the thconfig file: ##################

# This layout is for the elevation profile

layout profilemap

units imperial

scale 1 200

color map-fg [90 66 46]

legend off

symbol-set UIS

map-header 0 0 off

endlayout

# This layout is for the elevation profile

layout profilemap2

units imperial

scale 1 200

color map-fg [90 66 46]

legend off

symbol-set UIS

map-header 0 0 off

endlayout

# Entrance passage elevations

export map -proj elevation -layout profilemap -o MillCreekCaveElevation.pdf

# C side passage elevations

export map -proj elevation -layout profilemap2 -o MillCreekCaveElevation2.pdf

export map -proj plan -layout mainmap -o MillCreekCave.pdf

##################

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http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

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Hi Bruce and Martin - It seems I am still missing something. The trivial example PracticeCave compiles correctly and produces two unique elevation PDF files. However, it is not working on my real cave. I changed all the elevation scraps to "projection elevation". I put each in its own map statement, then used a select statement before each export. This produces two identical PDF files which contain BOTH of the elevation maps. So then I added a view angle to all of the elevation scraps (two different angles) and modified the export command to use the same view angle. Now I get an error: ============= calculating basic statistics ... done processing extended elevation ... done processing references ... therion: error -- MillCreekCave.th [41] -- incompatible scrap projection -- Elevation1 writing xtherion file ... done ============ Could there be something in the join statements that is not right? Each of the two profiles in this cave has multiple scraps. I have to separate sets of join statements to bring them together. It is almost like Therion is trying to join ALL of the elevation scraps rather than just the ones I specify. Thanks - Bill Gee On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 08:40:50 Martin Sluka wrote:

12. 11. 2014 v 7:28, Bruce <bruce@tomo.co.nz>:

...

Hi Bill I think I see your problem. I will potter around with the example you sent to demonstrate what I think you want, but maybe not tonight.

For now, you can avoid the 'object not found' error by double clicking on the survey or map item on the right-hand side of XTherion. For example it places...

select AllElevations.map@PracticeCave

...at the cursor position in the th-config file.

And, if you select multiple maps of one projection, they will all be used in the export for that projection.

Hi Bill

The problem is, you select map, but the full name of map is as wrote Bruce.

If you double click on AllElevation.map it will add select AllElevations.map@PracticeCave, where @PracticeCave is name of survey where the map is defined:

survey PracticeCave -title "Practice Cave"

It is not too clear from first point of view. Maybe a bug in xTherion menu.

So you should have in your thconfig:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx # Entrance passage elevations select AllElevations.map@PracticeCave export map -proj extended -layout profilemap -layout-debug station-names -o PracticeElevation1.pdf

select pdp@PracticeCave export map -proj plan -layout mainmap -layout-debug station-names -o PracticeCave.pdf xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If you want to export a map for each scrap separately you should use:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx select MyProj.map@PracticeCave export map -proj extended -layout profilemap -layout-debug station-names -o PracticeElevation1.pdf

select MyProj2.map@PracticeCave export map -proj extended -layout profilemap -layout-debug station-names -o PracticeElevation2.pdf xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

And add the second elevation map to:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx # Add the elevations map map-image 2 0 nw PracticeElevation1.pdf xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Another note: The final map must be generated AFTER you generate particular maps.

m.

Hi Martin Line 41 in MillCreekCave.th names the first elevation scrap in the first of the two elevation maps. ================== map MainPlan -title "Mill Creek Cave (PUL-012) - Plan View" # Main survey scraps Entrance1 EntranceConnector Entrance2 TJunction1 TJunction2 TJunction3 endmap map MainPassageProfile -projection elevation Elevation1 <<== Line 41 Elevation2 Elevation3 Elevation4 Elevation5 Elevation6 endmap map CPassageProfile -projection elevation ElevationB1-C2 ElevationC2-C5 ElevationC5-C6 ElevationC6-C7 ElevationC7-C8 ElevationC8-C9 ElevationC9-C11 endmap ================= The scrap is defined like this in the th2 file: scrap Elevation1 -projection [elevation 330 deg] -scale [0 0 1600 0 0.0 0.0 40.64 0.0 ft] And the select/export section from the thconfig file is this: =============== # Entrance passage elevations select MainPassageProfile@MillCreekCave export map -proj [elevation 330 deg ] -layout profilemap -o MillCreekCaveElevation1.pdf # C Passage elevations select CPassageProfile@MillCreekCave export map -proj [elevation 270 deg ] -layout profilemap -o MillCreekCaveElevation2.pdf # Main map select MainPlan@MillCreekCave export map -proj plan -layout mainmap -o MillCreekCave.pdf ================= I have a thought on this ... The main passage of this cave starts out going northeast, then gradually bends to the east. I chose an angle of 330 degrees because that would give me approximately an orthogonal view, as if I were standing off to the right of the passage to look at it. The second passage goes almost straight north, so a view angle of 270 degrees gives the same orthogonal view. If the passage were a train heading northeast and I were standing on the right-hand side of the tracks, my best view of the train would be on an angle of about 330 degrees. Is that the wrong way to choose those angles? Thanks - Bill Gee On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 17:38:35 Martin Sluka wrote:

12. 11. 2014 v 17:20, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:

...

therion: error -- MillCreekCave.th [41] -- incompatible scrap projection -- Elevation1

What is on 41st line of MillCreekCave.th ?

m.

Bill, I'm sorry of mess I made in last mail flip - command to flip scraps in xTherion • flip (none)/horizontal/vertical ▷ flips the scrap after scale transformation extend - command to extend (or flip) branches in centreline: • extend <spec> [<station> [<station>]] ▷ control how the centerline is extended. - normal/reverse ▷ extend given and following stations to the same/reverse direction as previous station. If two stations are given—direction is applied only to given shot. - left/right ▷ same as above, but direction is specified explicitly. - vertical ▷ do not move station (shot) in X direction, use only Z component of the shot - start ▷ specify starting station (shot) - ignore ▷ ignore specified station (shot), continue extended elevation with other station (shot) if possible - hide ▷ do not show specified station (shot) in extended elevation If no stations are specified, <spec> is valid for following shots specified. M.S. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net> wrote:

Lastly, as a feature enhancement - It would be nice to have a way to tell Therion to rotate scraps with "none" and "elevation" projections. I have a number of sketches where the cave is drawn right-to-left but the cross sections and elevations are drawn up-and-down. I get around this by making two copies of the sketch (or three in some cases!) each of which is rotated to present the relevant portion upright. The flip command is not adequate since it does 180 degree rotations. I need to do 90 degree rotations.

Hi, you can easily rotate (and re-scale) any cross-section using the red calibration line (see http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/tfc:332 for instructions how to display it) combined with setting the real distance of calibration line ends in X and Y directions. Elevations are automatically rotated according to positions of survey stations contained in them. Martin

Ben

It seems I am still missing something. The trivial example PracticeCave

compiles correctly and produces two unique elevation PDF files. However, it is not working on my real cave.

I changed all the elevation scraps to "projection elevation". I put each in

its own map statement, then used a select statement before each export. This produces two identical PDF files which contain BOTH of the elevation maps. That is because each export statement exports all maps of the specified (or implied) projection. You made them all the same (elevation, which as I mentioned is a default or proxy for [elevation 0 deg] or 'looking north')

So then I added a view angle to all of the elevation scraps (two different

angles) and modified the export command to use the same view angle. Now I get an error:

therion: error -- MillCreekCave.th [41] -- incompatible scrap projection -- Elevation1

Each export has an explicit or implied projection, and it can ONLY include maps that have the same projection. Likewise, each map can ONLY contain scraps with matching projections.

Could there be something in the join statements that is not right? Each of

the two profiles in this cave has multiple scraps. I have to separate sets of join statements to bring them together. It is almost like Therion is trying to join ALL of the elevation scraps rather than just the ones I specify. No. Nothing wrong with join, although join does add an extra layer of complexity when you are trying to debug problems, because the morphing disguises other things that may be going on. It is more likely a poor choice of projection view angle. From your earlier post (below) it sounds like you have extended profiles, so if your projected elevation angle looks 'end on' to the passage you will get a real mess.

There is a new question ... What is the effect of specifying the degree angle of the view for "-proj elevation"?

Search for 'projection' in the Therion wiki FAQ for explanation

The profiles for the real cave I am working on were sketched along the survey line. That means they bend and twist as the survey line bends. In this case the survey line is very close to running down the center of the cave, but that is not always the case. One leg from the T-Junction has a "dog leg" bend in it. At one station it goes from north to almost east for about 70 feet, then it turns back to almost straight north. The profile sketches follow the centerline and so make the same twist.

This means your sketches are 'extended', so if you want to use them faithfully, without redrawing, you will need to use -projection extended.

Since every profile sketch has two survey stations (or more), Therion can morph the sketch to the data. If a view angle is specified, does it mean that some sections of the profile will be morphed more than others?

Yes, exactly, however if the passage is traveling towards or away from (or close to) the projection angle, the morphing will be very messy - hence the desirability of sketches that more or less match the projection chosen. So if all your elevations are -projection extended, then all selected extended maps will be exported each time. I should test it now, but am too lazy, however my experience from several versions back is that Martins suggestion of sequential selections and exports does not result in the segregation of map outputs you are looking for. Either Martin is right, or will need to modify th-config between runs (or use indexes - not a good idea in this circumstance - constrains your options later on for rearranging maps). Have you though of using offset in your extended elevations as an alternative to segregated output files? You know you can choose the starting station and direction of branching in extended elevations? You can use offset to separate passages that would otherwise overlie each other. This would give you segregated maps in a single file/run and the relationship of the offset maps can be displayed by Therion in the form of map-connection lines and preview above/below outlines. Bruce

Bill The attached files demonstrate what I think you were describing in your original message. All of the changes I made to your files have the tag #B20141112 added to them. I have modified each elevation map to use a different projection. Of course it is ridiculous with this particular example, being essentially straight, but it is the sort of thing one might do for a Tee shaped cave as you originally described. I had to change the projection of each elevation scrap, and this is not something you would usually do after it has been drawn - of course the shape of a scrap depends very much on the projection, and to change the projection later on will usually render it meaningless (although Therion can pull off some amazing morphing). I added debug all to label the scraps, stations and observe the morphing. I also took the opportunity to test the transparent background that I was having trouble with in my datasets - it works! Regards Bruce -----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2014 7:29 p.m. To: 'List for Therion users' Subject: Re: [Therion] Multiple elevation maps Hi Bill I think I see your problem. I will potter around with the example you sent to demonstrate what I think you want, but maybe not tonight. For now, you can avoid the 'object not found' error by double clicking on the survey or map item on the right-hand side of XTherion. For example it places... select AllElevations.map@PracticeCave ...at the cursor position in the th-config file. And, if you select multiple maps of one projection, they will all be used in the export for that projection. -Plan is a projection -Extended is a projection (developed or straightened out elevation) see http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/faq#projections_plan_elevation_extend ed_and_none -Elevation is a default for [elevation 000 deg] ie 'looking north'. So assuming there are 360 degrees in a circle there are 360 different elevation projections. If all your elevations have the same projection, all the elevation maps will end up in the same pdf (unless you modify the th-config between runs or use multiple th-configs as Rowena suggests). I will modify your example to demonstrate using two elevation projections (without resorting to indexes). Bruce

Hi Bruce and Martin - Very nice! This is exactly what I was looking for. The "secret" is how the select statements work, and then to have a select before each export. I will apply this to the real cave map I am working on and report back results. There is a new question ... What is the effect of specifying the degree angle of the view for "-proj elevation"? The profiles for the real cave I am working on were sketched along the survey line. That means they bend and twist as the survey line bends. In this case the survey line is very close to running down the center of the cave, but that is not always the case. One leg from the T-Junction has a "dog leg" bend in it. At one station it goes from north to almost east for about 70 feet, then it turns back to almost straight north. The profile sketches follow the centerline and so make the same twist. Since every profile sketch has two survey stations (or more), Therion can morph the sketch to the data. If a view angle is specified, does it mean that some sections of the profile will be morphed more than others? Many thanks for all your help! Bill Gee On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 22:36:53 Bruce wrote:

Bill

The attached files demonstrate what I think you were describing in your original message. All of the changes I made to your files have the tag #B20141112 added to them.

I have modified each elevation map to use a different projection. Of course it is ridiculous with this particular example, being essentially straight, but it is the sort of thing one might do for a Tee shaped cave as you originally described.

I had to change the projection of each elevation scrap, and this is not something you would usually do after it has been drawn - of course the shape of a scrap depends very much on the projection, and to change the projection later on will usually render it meaningless (although Therion can pull off some amazing morphing).

I added debug all to label the scraps, stations and observe the morphing.

I also took the opportunity to test the transparent background that I was having trouble with in my datasets - it works!

Regards

Bruce

-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2014 7:29 p.m. To: 'List for Therion users' Subject: Re: [Therion] Multiple elevation maps

Hi Bill

I think I see your problem. I will potter around with the example you sent

to demonstrate what I think you want, but maybe not tonight.

For now, you can avoid the 'object not found' error by double clicking on

the survey or map item on the right-hand side of XTherion. For example it

places...

select AllElevations.map@PracticeCave

...at the cursor position in the th-config file.

And, if you select multiple maps of one projection, they will all be used in

the export for that projection.

-Plan is a projection

-Extended is a projection (developed or straightened out elevation) see

http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/faq#projections_plan_elevation_extend

ed_and_none

-Elevation is a default for [elevation 000 deg] ie 'looking north'. So

assuming there are 360 degrees in a circle there are 360 different elevation

projections.

If all your elevations have the same projection, all the elevation maps will

end up in the same pdf (unless you modify the th-config between runs or use

multiple th-configs as Rowena suggests).

I will modify your example to demonstrate using two elevation projections

(without resorting to indexes).

Bruce