I notice that continuations listed in scraps with no meta data (ie no -attr code, -text or -explored values) are not listed in continuation-list outputs. For example, the code below gives a ? on a 2d map, but does not appear in the continuation-list. point 123.0 456.0 continuation This is inconvenient if trying to keep track of them with continuation-list outputs. Is it possible to have them included in the continuation-list output in due course? Also I wonder if the object that contains the continuation definition could be listed, ie the scrap or survey (or file name), so that edits are easier to locate. (At present the survey that identifies the physical location is listed - regardless of where it's code is defined - and this is useful and should be retained) Am using version 5.2.5 Regards Bruce PS: I notice that the problem with continuation text being repeated inappropriately has been solved thanks.
On 11.1.2009, at 21:08, Bruce Mutton wrote:
For example, the code below gives a ? on a 2d map, but does not appear in the continuation-list.
point 123.0 456.0 continuation
change it to point 123.0 456.0 continuation -text "something" Quite easy to do it in plain text editor by search/replace.
Also I wonder if the object that contains the continuation definition could be listed, ie the scrap or survey (or file name), so that edits are easier to locate.
(At present the survey that identifies the physical location is listed – regardless of where it’s code is defined – and this is useful and should be retained)
generate map or atlas with next options in layout: debug station-names survey-level 1 and you may use the search feature of Acrobat: search "station_name@survey_name" m.s.
On 11.1.2009, at 21:08, Bruce Mutton wrote:
For example, the code below gives a ? on a 2d map, but does not appear in the continuation-list.
point 123.0 456.0 continuation
change it to point 123.0 456.0 continuation -text "something"
Quite easy to do it in plain text editor by search/replace.
Also I wonder if the object that contains the continuation definition could be listed, ie the scrap or survey (or file name), so that edits are easier to locate.
(At present the survey that identifies the physical location is listed - regardless of where it's code is defined - and this is useful and should be retained)
generate map or atlas with next options in layout:
debug station-names survey-level 1
and you may use the search feature of Acrobat: search "station_name@survey_name"
m.s.
Thanks Martin I have been using both those approaches as work-arounds for some time, but the work-arounds are only of use if you know there is a continuation in your data that has no text associated with it. Ie if you don't actually do the search with the text editor in all your *.th and *.th2 files there are no visual cues. A particular problem if you are checking data created by someone else. It should be sufficient to export a continuation-list to find this type of anomaly in the input data. Thoughts anyone? Bruce
On 12.1.2009, at 19:12, Bruce Mutton wrote:
It should be sufficient to export a continuation-list to find this type of anomaly in the input data.
The idea was to export list of commented continuations only. Check cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/204/204.htm from where came this idea. Stacho may simply add this feature I hope. m.s.
On 12.1.2009, at 19:12, Bruce Mutton wrote:
I have been using both those approaches as workarounds for some time
I'm not sure they are workarounds. Therion in generally is the puzzle of several useful free tools. The data format is plain text so you should use your preferred plain text editor for advanced manipulation of text or PDF reader's search function to find point of interest in your map. There is no reason to lost time by creating sophisticated text editor inside therion or replace features which PDF reader is able to do. Just my personal opinion Martin
Sorry Martin, there seems to be some misunderstanding. Unfortunately the focus of my original post has been changed somehow as this thread has developed. In fact I agree whole heartedly with you, that the Therion Editors need little if any work. I already use other text editors for bulk manipulation and Adobe software to query pdf outputs. I am happy with this approach. I think we agree on this. Repeating part of my original post " I notice that continuations listed in scraps with no meta data (ie no -attr code, -text or -explored values) are not listed in continuation-list outputs. For example, the code below gives a ? on a 2d map, but does not appear in the continuation-list. point 123.0 456.0 continuation This is inconvenient if trying to keep track of them with continuation-list outputs. Is it possible to have them included in the continuation-list output in due course? " I tried the link cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/204/204.htm a number of times today, but it seems to be unavailable from this part of the world at the moment, so unfortunately I have not been able to inform myself. My frustration is not that the data input side of Therion is deficient, but rather the continuation-list output (and perhaps the other list outputs)is not as complete as one might expect it to be. A short term solution might be to clarify in the Therion Book that only continuations with text will be output to the list, or my preference would be to eventually output all continuations to the list regardless of the presence of text. As always I appreciate the effort that you put into developing this software, and although I am quite 'vocal' on this forum at the moment, I'm not trying to rush you or force the development in 'my' direction. I'm quite happy to wait for further developments as you and Stacho (and others) see fit. I am however using it quite a lot at the moment, and so I figure that if I have any difficulty then probably there are many others who might also be struggling with the same things. After all, most of my early Therion learning was gained by trawling the forum archives. Thanks and keep up the good work. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 8:29 p.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: Re: [Therion] Continuation list incomplete On 12.1.2009, at 19:12, Bruce Mutton wrote:
I have been using both those approaches as workarounds for some time
I'm not sure they are workarounds. Therion in generally is the puzzle of several useful free tools. The data format is plain text so you should use your preferred plain text editor for advanced manipulation of text or PDF reader's search function to find point of interest in your map. There is no reason to lost time by creating sophisticated text editor inside therion or replace features which PDF reader is able to do. Just my personal opinion Martin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
I think, there is no problem to add simple option to the export, that will force therion to add all contunuations to the list. This is really no problem. But there is another problem. If there are two question marks (one in plan and one in elevation) meaning the same. It does not make sense to have them listed twice. But the only solution I see for this problem is to add manual reference between these two objects - I see no possibility how to do it automatically. Regards, S. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Bruce Mutton <bruce.mutton@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
Sorry Martin, there seems to be some misunderstanding. Unfortunately the focus of my original post has been changed somehow as this thread has developed.
In fact I agree whole heartedly with you, that the Therion Editors need little if any work. I already use other text editors for bulk manipulation and Adobe software to query pdf outputs. I am happy with this approach. I think we agree on this.
Repeating part of my original post
" I notice that continuations listed in scraps with no meta data (ie no -attr code, -text or -explored values) are not listed in continuation-list outputs.
For example, the code below gives a ? on a 2d map, but does not appear in the continuation-list.
point 123.0 456.0 continuation
This is inconvenient if trying to keep track of them with continuation-list outputs. Is it possible to have them included in the continuation-list output in due course? "
I tried the link cucc.survex.com/expo/smkridge/204/204.htm a number of times today, but it seems to be unavailable from this part of the world at the moment, so unfortunately I have not been able to inform myself.
My frustration is not that the data input side of Therion is deficient, but rather the continuation-list output (and perhaps the other list outputs)is not as complete as one might expect it to be. A short term solution might be to clarify in the Therion Book that only continuations with text will be output to the list, or my preference would be to eventually output all continuations to the list regardless of the presence of text.
As always I appreciate the effort that you put into developing this software, and although I am quite 'vocal' on this forum at the moment, I'm not trying to rush you or force the development in 'my' direction. I'm quite happy to wait for further developments as you and Stacho (and others) see fit. I am however using it quite a lot at the moment, and so I figure that if I have any difficulty then probably there are many others who might also be struggling with the same things. After all, most of my early Therion learning was gained by trawling the forum archives.
Thanks and keep up the good work. Bruce
-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 8:29 p.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: Re: [Therion] Continuation list incomplete
On 12.1.2009, at 19:12, Bruce Mutton wrote:
I have been using both those approaches as workarounds for some time
I'm not sure they are workarounds. Therion in generally is the puzzle of several useful free tools. The data format is plain text so you should use your preferred plain text editor for advanced manipulation of text or PDF reader's search function to find point of interest in your map.
There is no reason to lost time by creating sophisticated text editor inside therion or replace features which PDF reader is able to do.
Just my personal opinion
Martin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
On 13.1.2009, at 10:35, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
But there is another problem. If there are two question marks (one in plan and one in elevation) meaning the same. It does not make sense to have them listed twice. But the only solution I see for this problem is to add manual reference between these two objects - I see no possibility how to do it automatically.
Stacho, may you make two export options: one for commented continuation (as now) and second one for all continuations. So you may generate the list with commented continuations and to have simple continuations point in elevation in the same time which will be not listed. Martin S.
Yes, the problem Stacho pointed out is compounded if you have multiple elevation views, although I don't really see it as a significant problem. Martins approach outlined will below give an option for users to manage it directly by self discipline. Alternatively the continuation-list already outputs the survey title and nearest survey station name. The list can be parsed by the user to another application and sorted by station name, then all the duplicate continuations will be adjacent to each other, even if the text is entered differently for each instance. This is not-so user friendly I admit. And perhaps Therion could have an option to print only one instance of a continuation if the survey id and station name match. Perhaps printing only the instance with the most text? Bruce -----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2009 11:52 p.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: Re: [Therion] Continuation list incomplete On 13.1.2009, at 10:35, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
But there is another problem. If there are two question marks (one in plan and one in elevation) meaning the same. It does not make sense to have them listed twice. But the only solution I see for this problem is to add manual reference between these two objects - I see no possibility how to do it automatically.
Stacho, may you make two export options: one for commented continuation (as now) and second one for all continuations. So you may generate the list with commented continuations and to have simple continuations point in elevation in the same time which will be not listed. Martin S. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
On 13.1.2009, at 20:37, Bruce Mutton wrote:
Perhaps printing only the instance with the most text?
It is more complicated - try imagine chimney with two unclimbed windows and the survey station is in the middle under the chimney. If the continuations are uncomented only one of them will be listed. m.
Oops, and I forgot... My original idea was that continuations might be listed separately by source type (ie survey, plan, extended, elevation 000, elevation 270 etc, none) If these are grouped separately then there may be no need for Therion to try to manage duplicates. Bruce
In the latest unstable version 5.2.6 - if you add "-filter off" option to continuations output, all continuations (including those without comment) will be exported to the list. Currently, it is not possible to use more sophisticated filters (e.g. projection). May be this will come in the future. Regards, S. On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Bruce Mutton <bruce.mutton@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
I notice that continuations listed in scraps with no meta data (ie no –attr code, -text or –explored values) are not listed in continuation-list outputs.
For example, the code below gives a ? on a 2d map, but does not appear in the continuation-list.
point 123.0 456.0 continuation
This is inconvenient if trying to keep track of them with continuation-list outputs. Is it possible to have them included in the continuation-list output in due course?
Also I wonder if the object that contains the continuation definition could be listed, ie the scrap or survey (or file name), so that edits are easier to locate.
(At present the survey that identifies the physical location is listed – regardless of where it's code is defined – and this is useful and should be retained)
Am using version 5.2.5
Regards
Bruce
PS: I notice that the problem with continuation text being repeated inappropriately has been solved thanks.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
participants (3)
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Bruce Mutton -
Martin Sluka -
Stacho Mudrak