[Therion] Mine sybols?

[Cooper, Ben]

Hi Christian,
I've a couple of additions for you below.  I also stumbled on the following references that may be of interest.
[1] http://www.aditnow.co.uk/dictionary/mining-dictionary.aspx
[2] http://xmlwords.infomine.com/xmlwords.htm
Regards,
- Ben

> -----Original Message-----
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk 
> [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Christian 
> Rößler (Roessler)
> Sent: 07 December 2007 14:48
> To: therion at speleo.sk
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Mine sybols?
> 
> Am Freitag, 7. Dezember 2007 schrieb Cooper, Ben:
> 
> Hallo Ben,
> 
> > We need somebody with mining experience to get some of the technical
> > English phrases correct, but here are are few suggestions 
> for improved
> > English.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> > I'm not precious about any of these, so other English speakers: 
> > feel free to contradict!
> 
> > > 1. Shaft / Schacht (up and down).
> > Yes
> 
> Good. Symbol is just a diagonally divided rectangle with one triangle 
> blackened; should be easy.
> 
> > > 2. Sinking (?) / Gesenk
> > 2. Sink
> 
> No, a 'Gesenk' is just a kind of 'blind shaft' to search for 
> ore beneath the 
> galley sole. Differentation to blind shaft would be that a 
> 'Gesenk' has no 
> connection to a galley below. Usually water filled, but with 
> no water flow.
> 
> Symbol should be alike to 'shaft' but a bit differentiated.

2.  Winze?  (a shaft that only goes down from a level with no 
corresponding shaft up to the surface).  Pronounced similar to English "wins".

> 
> > > 3. Weather (ventile) door / Wettertür
> > 3. I've not heard of Weather Door!  Do you mean a door to 
> seal the mine and
> > stop a draught, or a door specifically to allow a draught?  
> "Ventile"
> > suggests the latter.  The more straightforward English noun 
> is just "vent"
> > or "Vented Door".
> 
> Well, a door to regulate air flow: Flow when opened, no flow 
> when closed. 
> Sorry for translating 'by the word': In the mining sense 
> 'Wetter' means air 
> and air flow in a mine.

Well, an "air-lock" stops air flow, so perhaps air-lock or air-lock door, or even, given your explanation, Weather Door is OK!  In a cave, we use the UK word "draught" (or US "draft") , which has several meanings, including the flow of air.  
So perhaps "draught door"...?

> 
> > > 4. Doorway (for supporting) / Türstock (standing and ruined)
> 
> Two side posts and a supporting beam above both for 
> supporting the ceiling.
> 
> > > 5. Where ore was mined / Abbau (up and down)
> > Stope?  I think a stope is a specific type of space 
> (step-like), so may not
> > be generic enough?
> 
> I also think so.
> 
> > > 6. Hole for rolling ore downwards / Rolloch
> > ?
> 
> Well, a narrow shaft from a place where ore was mined to the 
> galley beneath, 
> in which the ore was thrown so it could be easier collected 
> and loaded below. 
> Symbol should be perhaps alike to shaft, but a bit differentiated.
> 
> > > 7. Wagon rolling planks / Hundbretter
> > I guess this are placed sideways rather than lengthwise?  
> If lengthwide,
> > then I suppose they are a form of "rail" or "track"?
> 
> Yes. The wagon 'Hund' was steered with a nail which griped 
> into the space 
> between the planks. Look eg here: 
> <http://silberbergwerk-suggental.de/fileadmin/bergwerk/bilder/
> galerie/Arbeit_unter_Tage/1024_Arbeit_unter_Tage_13.jpg>
> (That's 'our' mine, and me, by the way:).) You see?
> 
> > > 8. Hand driven wind / Haspel
> > 8. Windlass
> 
> Good!
> 
> > > 9. Chamber for hand driven wind / Haspelkammer
> > 9. Winding Room (but this suggests to my ear a man-made 
> room, with powered
> > machinery.  Question for English speaking miners: would 
> there be "winding
> > room" underground?) or "Windlass Chamber" is descriptive 
> but perhaps not
> > very meaningful...?
> 
> perhaps just 'windlass chamber' would be the best fit, I think.
> 
> > > 10. Water flowing gutter / Gerinne
> > 10.  just "Gutter"?, or perhaps do you mean "Leat" which is 
> a mining term
> > for a man-made water course (Gerinne = coagulate, suggests 
> bringing waters
> > together...so I wonder whether there is a specific mining 
> phrase in English
> > for this...?)
> 
> Yes, then 'leat' would be the word! 'Gerinne' comes flor 
> 'rinnen' = flowing 
> slowly.
> 
> > > 11. Lamp niche / Lampennische
> > Sounds OK to me...?
> 
> Ok!
> 
> > > 12. Upraise / Aufhauen
> > ?
> 
> The opposite to 'Gesenk', but up, not down. A kind of blind 
> shaft to search 
> for ore above the galley ceiling, but not connected to the 
> galley above.

Could be a "rise" (or US "raise").  Note both a winze and a rise can connect levels, but I understand that this is not always the case.  

> 
> > > 13. Galley end (constr. end) / Ortsbrust
> > ?
> 
> Well, where the old miners ceased to drive the galley 
> forward. If wanted I 
> will send an example picture.
> 
> > > 14. Hewn material / Versatz
> > 14.  Spoil?  I think spoil usually refers to waste material 
> that is mined
> > out.
> 
> Not quite. 'Versatz' means usually hewn-out rock (oreless) 
> filled into an old 
> galley to prevent cave-in (hehehe, _cave_-in), or into a 
> shaft, or just lying 
> around.

Waste rock is used in [1].
"Deads" is a stack of waste rock, not necessarily to stop a cave-in.

> 
> > > 15. Versturz
> > 15. Collapse?
> 
> Yes! Taken!
> 
> > > 16. Special tool traces / Werkzeugspuren
> > 16. Tool marks
> 
> Much better!
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions, Ben. Now I will have a look 
> which symbols are 
> used elsewhere, so we stay consistent in Therion. Then I will try to 
> designing the missing ones, and put them to discussion. By 
> the way, as I have 
> seen others are attaching files, I think it would be ok if I 
> attach the 
> (small) graphics.
> 
> I do also have some more symbol proposals, but perhaps some 
> of these are abit 
> exotic so I will wait with these until the ones above are cleared.
> 
> Best regards,
> Christian
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