How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below
Hi Therion guys, In the final throws of getting a report done for Spanish Gov before the end of the year. I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others. I've got higher passages appearing below lower passages, I've moved them around in the map structure, to no solution. So I just want to know If anyone had any insight as to what I should try. Specific example for SVN users here: http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/ Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig<http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig> is the config which runs the main survey below. Both side passages (north of main) should be appearing above, hence label "drop to streamway" [cid:95d33f93-2e49-45d7-bd39-24f54233d3af] Regards, Alastair Gott. AlastairGott@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380.
Hi momentarily forgot which file you needed, Sorry you need the main .th file not .thconfig Claphamjn_PartingfrMaster.th<http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/Claphamjn_PartingfrMaster.th> Regards, Alastair Gott. AlastairGott@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380. ________________________________ From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> on behalf of alastair gott <alastairgott@hotmail.com> Sent: 12 December 2019 22:04 To: Therion Mailing List <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below Hi Therion guys, In the final throws of getting a report done for Spanish Gov before the end of the year. I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others. I've got higher passages appearing below lower passages, I've moved them around in the map structure, to no solution. So I just want to know If anyone had any insight as to what I should try. Specific example for SVN users here: http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/ Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig<http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig> is the config which runs the main survey below. Both side passages (north of main) should be appearing above, hence label "drop to streamway" [cid:95d33f93-2e49-45d7-bd39-24f54233d3af] Regards, Alastair Gott. AlastairGott@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380.
Hi Alastair, You need to use the command “break” in your map list: map scrap1 scrap2 break scrap3 scrap4 endmap scrap1 and scrap2 will be on the front level, scrap3 and scrap4 on back level. Of course, you can use as many break as you want. Cheers, Phil
On 12 Dec 2019, at 23:08, alastair gott <alastairgott@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi momentarily forgot which file you needed,
Sorry you need the main .th file not .thconfig
Claphamjn_PartingfrMaster.th <http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/Claphamjn_PartingfrMaster.th>
Regards, Alastair Gott.
AlastairGott@hotmail.com <mailto:AlastairGott@hotmail.com>, M: 07931779380. From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> on behalf of alastair gott <alastairgott@hotmail.com> Sent: 12 December 2019 22:04 To: Therion Mailing List <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below
Hi Therion guys,
In the final throws of getting a report done for Spanish Gov before the end of the year.
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I've got higher passages appearing below lower passages, I've moved them around in the map structure, to no solution.
So I just want to know If anyone had any insight as to what I should try.
Specific example for SVN users here: http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/ <http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/>
Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig <http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig> is the config which runs the main survey below.
Both side passages (north of main) should be appearing above, hence label "drop to streamway"
<image.png>
Regards, Alastair Gott.
AlastairGott@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi Alastair, (as usual) the problem is you didn't select any map in thconfig. This works. (I changed a bit names of you maps and scraps just to know what is what). Martin
12. 12. 2019 v 23:08, alastair gott <alastairgott@hotmail.com>:
Hi momentarily forgot which file you needed,
Sorry you need the main .th file not .thconfig
Claphamjn_PartingfrMaster.th <http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/Claphamjn_PartingfrMaster.th>
Regards, Alastair Gott.
AlastairGott@hotmail.com <mailto:AlastairGott@hotmail.com>, M: 07931779380. From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> on behalf of alastair gott <alastairgott@hotmail.com> Sent: 12 December 2019 22:04 To: Therion Mailing List <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below
Hi Therion guys,
In the final throws of getting a report done for Spanish Gov before the end of the year.
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I've got higher passages appearing below lower passages, I've moved them around in the map structure, to no solution.
So I just want to know If anyone had any insight as to what I should try.
Specific example for SVN users here: http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/ <http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/>
Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig <http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig> is the config which runs the main survey below.
Both side passages (north of main) should be appearing above, hence label "drop to streamway"
<image.png>
Regards, Alastair Gott.
AlastairGott@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Alastair,
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general case: If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and stacks them accordingly. If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the scraps cross each other.) If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to separate the rendering layers. map map1 scrap1 scrap2 break scrap3 scrap4 endmap scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4. When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps. map outermap map1 map2 map3 endmap The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3. You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking between maps. If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and put "break" where needed to separate them into layers. If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers first. Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between them. I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will explain what you are seeing at least. Tarquin
Is there any layout option we can activate, so therion ignores map ordering alltogether and always just uses average scrap height?
Am 12.12.2019 um 23:46 schrieb Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>:
Alastair,
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general case:
If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and stacks them accordingly.
If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the scraps cross each other.)
If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to separate the rendering layers.
map map1 scrap1 scrap2 break scrap3 scrap4 endmap
scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4.
When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps.
map outermap map1 map2 map3 endmap
The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3.
You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking between maps.
If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and put "break" where needed to separate them into layers.
If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers first.
Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between them.
I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will explain what you are seeing at least.
Tarquin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
What is the reason to kill one of basic principles of Therion which allows to generate maps of really complicated systems? Martin Odesláno z iPhonu 13. 12. 2019 v 8:34, Benedikt Hallinger <beni@hallinger.org>:
Is there any layout option we can activate, so therion ignores map ordering alltogether and always just uses average scrap height?
Am 12.12.2019 um 23:46 schrieb Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>:
Alastair,
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general case:
If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and stacks them accordingly.
If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the scraps cross each other.)
If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to separate the rendering layers.
map map1 scrap1 scrap2 break scrap3 scrap4 endmap
scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4.
When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps.
map outermap map1 map2 map3 endmap
The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3.
You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking between maps.
If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and put "break" where needed to separate them into layers.
If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers first.
Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between them.
I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will explain what you are seeing at least.
Tarquin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Automation of simpler but big caves, because one just needs to define submaps and layering could be automatic.
Am 13.12.2019 um 08:42 schrieb Martin Sluka via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>:
What is the reason to kill one of basic principles of Therion which allows to generate maps of really complicated systems?
Martin
Odesláno z iPhonu
13. 12. 2019 v 8:34, Benedikt Hallinger <beni@hallinger.org>:
Is there any layout option we can activate, so therion ignores map ordering alltogether and always just uses average scrap height?
Am 12.12.2019 um 23:46 schrieb Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>:
Alastair,
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general case:
If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and stacks them accordingly.
If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the scraps cross each other.)
If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to separate the rendering layers.
map map1 scrap1 scrap2 break scrap3 scrap4 endmap
scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4.
When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps.
map outermap map1 map2 map3 endmap
The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3.
You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking between maps.
If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and put "break" where needed to separate them into layers.
If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers first.
Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between them.
I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will explain what you are seeing at least.
Tarquin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi Tarquin and others, I'm still struggling with this one, I have implemented Tarquin's suggestions but the survey has not changed in the slightest, I'm still getting the maps appearing below that I want above. please find below my implementation. Is there anything else I can try? map Abovemainpassage -projection plan m1p@YFSOE m1p@YMWAH endmap map mainpassage -projection plan m1p@clapham_to_wp m1p@wp_to_pf m1p@partingfriends endmap map Claphamjn_PartingfrMasterplan -projection plan Abovemainpassage break mainpassage endmap Regards, Alastair Gott. AlastairGott@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380. ________________________________ From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> on behalf of Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: 12 December 2019 22:46 To: therion@speleo.sk <therion@speleo.sk> Cc: Tarquin Wilton-Jones <tarquin.wilton-jones@ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below Alastair,
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general case: If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and stacks them accordingly. If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the scraps cross each other.) If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to separate the rendering layers. map map1 scrap1 scrap2 break scrap3 scrap4 endmap scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4. When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps. map outermap map1 map2 map3 endmap The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3. You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking between maps. If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and put "break" where needed to separate them into layers. If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers first. Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between them. I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will explain what you are seeing at least. Tarquin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
This version maybe workmap mainpassagebreakClaphamjn_PartingfrMasterplan -projection plan Abovemainpassage endmapRegards Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device -------- Mensaje original --------De: alastair gott <alastairgott@hotmail.com> Fecha: 14/12/19 7:50 AM (GMT-05:00) A: Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> Asunto: Re: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below Hi Tarquin and others, I'm still struggling with this one, I have implemented Tarquin's suggestions but the survey has not changed in the slightest, I'm still getting the maps appearing below that I want above. please find below my implementation. Is there anything else I can try? map Abovemainpassage -projection plan m1p@YFSOE m1p@YMWAH endmap map mainpassage -projection plan m1p@clapham_to_wp m1p@wp_to_pf m1p@partingfriends endmap map Claphamjn_PartingfrMasterplan -projection plan Abovemainpassage break mainpassage endmap Regards, Alastair Gott. AlastairGott@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380. From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> on behalf of Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: 12 December 2019 22:46 To: therion@speleo.sk <therion@speleo.sk> Cc: Tarquin Wilton-Jones <tarquin.wilton-jones@ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below Alastair,
I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below others.
I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general case: If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and stacks them accordingly. If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the scraps cross each other.) If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to separate the rendering layers. map map1 scrap1 scrap2 break scrap3 scrap4 endmap scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4. When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps. map outermap map1 map2 map3 endmap The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3. You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking between maps. If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and put "break" where needed to separate them into layers. If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order, change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers first. Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between them. I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will explain what you are seeing at least. Tarquin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
participants (6)
-
alastair gott -
Benedikt Hallinger -
Martin Sluka -
Philippe Vernant -
Tarquin Wilton-Jones -
vlado6208