Hi, If I bring Pocket Topo data/sketch into Therion with Top Parser and draw up the survey and then go back to the cave and add more stuff to the original topo file using say the continue here option is it possible to somehow easily get/replace the amended topo data into the original .th2 file and retain the scrap work already done or do I have to create a new survey. Obviously I can amend the .th with a text editor. I sometimes find myself waiting to draw things up whilst I get time to go back to get the last bits of the survey done so everything is in one file and I don't have to join it all together. Sorry if this is a bit of a stupid question but if you don't ask you never find out. Nick Bairstow
Nick I don't know the answer to your question. I have always created a new .top file for a new day or new survey segment (separated from previous survey legs that day). Hence I am careful not to leave any small or isolated bits of passage unsurveyed, to avoid future tiny surveys! Joining together is easy, and so it is a strength of the method that there is no need to wait until you have finished surveying. Complete your Therion centerline and drawing at the end of each day! Bruce _____ From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Nick Bairstow Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2015 6:42 a.m. To: 'List for Therion users' Subject: [Therion] Additions To Pocket Topo Data Hi, If I bring Pocket Topo data/sketch into Therion with Top Parser and draw up the survey and then go back to the cave and add more stuff to the original topo file using say the continue here option is it possible to somehow easily get/replace the amended topo data into the original .th2 file and retain the scrap work already done or do I have to create a new survey. Obviously I can amend the .th with a text editor. I sometimes find myself waiting to draw things up whilst I get time to go back to get the last bits of the survey done so everything is in one file and I don't have to join it all together. Sorry if this is a bit of a stupid question but if you don't ask you never find out. Nick Bairstow
Nick I have written topParser, following what I do, with a little adaptation for other methods that I know about when people ask me. I try to strctly follow the one survey trip, one file methodology, so what you are trying to do is not implemented, and to be truthful it would be very hard to do, I think. I would suggest that organising files by surveys trip (A caving trip to survey 2 parts of a cave counts as 2 trips, as starting a survey and going back to the same spot) The reason that I do this is although it looks very verbose at the start, as projects become large it actually makes data organisation easier. Mixing data can lead to difficulties latter, the obvious problem is that if the instrument is in different calibration, or worse out of calibration, this might not be discovered until later, say when a look is closed, it is easier to find and remove these sort of things if they are grouped together. There are probably many ways to do this sort of thing, I find this works for me. As Bruce said joining is easy, so long as the sketches are not joined on a junction and when you get further into the power of therion, you will probably find that more smaller sections with joins is what you want, I have certainly found myself having to go back and split scraps up to get to some final outputs. However, if you really want to amend a drawing, for things like going back and adding more detail to an existing top file, the th2 can be generated, this also generates an xvi file which is the underlying drawing. This can then be imported into your th2 file, either through the front end or in a text editor. Guess I could add an option only to generate the xvi files, which should help and is reasonably easy. I will add it to the todo list. Amending an existing th file automatically is the sort of thing that could lead to all sorts of trouble and is way beyond the simplicity of topParser. I would say that manually doing it is the best option, best method is probably to generate the new th file and as you say paste over the relevant bits manually Andrew On 14/07/15 21:05, Bruce wrote:
Nick
I don’t know the answer to your question. I have always created a new .top file for a new day or new survey segment (separated from previous survey legs that day). Hence I am careful not to leave any small or isolated bits of passage unsurveyed, to avoid future tiny surveys!
Joining together is easy, and so it is a strength of the method that there is no need to wait until you have finished surveying. Complete your Therion centerline and drawing at the end of each day!
Bruce
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Nick Bairstow *Sent:* Wednesday, 15 July 2015 6:42 a.m. *To:* 'List for Therion users' *Subject:* [Therion] Additions To Pocket Topo Data
Hi, If I bring Pocket Topo data/sketch into Therion with Top Parser and draw up the survey and then go back to the cave and add more stuff to the original topo file using say the continue here option is it possible to somehow easily get/replace the amended topo data into the original .th2 file and retain the scrap work already done or do I have to create a new survey. Obviously I can amend the .th with a text editor.
I sometimes find myself waiting to draw things up whilst I get time to go back to get the last bits of the survey done so everything is in one file and I don’t have to join it all together.
Sorry if this is a bit of a stupid question but if you don’t ask you never find out.
Nick Bairstow
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Thanks for explanation. Nick, in there are structures of survey and maps absolutely independent. So there is not necessary to have all survey data in one .th file. You may connect them in survey in upper level. For me the idea structure is: survey trip_1 #survey on base level input trip_1_plan.th2 data … enddata map trip_1.map trip_1_scrap_1 endmap endsurvey survey small_cave #survey defining of all cave input trip_1 input trip_2 … map small_cave.map trip_1.map@trip_1 trip_2.map@trip_2 … endmap map small_cave_connection_only #definition of another map trip_1_scrap_1@trip_1 trip_3_scrap_2@trip_3 endmap endsurvey Advantage of this structure is you may named stations a1, a2, a3, …. and never renamed them in upper levels of survey. Much better than on level 1 renamed them to a1@trip_1. You may check your export PDF for one scrap and use the same data if you check the plan of overall cave. I hope it is clear for you Martin
15. 7. 2015 v 10:13, Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
Nick
I have written topParser, following what I do, with a little adaptation for other methods that I know about when people ask me.
I try to strctly follow the one survey trip, one file methodology, so what you are trying to do is not implemented, and to be truthful it would be very hard to do, I think.
I would suggest that organising files by surveys trip (A caving trip to survey 2 parts of a cave counts as 2 trips, as starting a survey and going back to the same spot) The reason that I do this is although it looks very verbose at the start, as projects become large it actually makes data organisation easier. Mixing data can lead to difficulties latter, the obvious problem is that if the instrument is in different calibration, or worse out of calibration, this might not be discovered until later, say when a look is closed, it is easier to find and remove these sort of things if they are grouped together. There are probably many ways to do this sort of thing, I find this works for me. As Bruce said joining is easy, so long as the sketches are not joined on a junction and when you get further into the power of therion, you will probably find that more smaller sections with joins is what you want, I have certainly found myself having to go back and split scraps up to get to some final outputs.
However, if you really want to amend a drawing, for things like going back and adding more detail to an existing top file, the th2 can be generated, this also generates an xvi file which is the underlying drawing. This can then be imported into your th2 file, either through the front end or in a text editor. Guess I could add an option only to generate the xvi files, which should help and is reasonably easy. I will add it to the todo list. Amending an existing th file automatically is the sort of thing that could lead to all sorts of trouble and is way beyond the simplicity of topParser. I would say that manually doing it is the best option, best method is probably to generate the new th file and as you say paste over the relevant bits manually
Andrew
On 14/07/15 21:05, Bruce wrote:
Nick
I don’t know the answer to your question. I have always created a new .top file for a new day or new survey segment (separated from previous survey legs that day). Hence I am careful not to leave any small or isolated bits of passage unsurveyed, to avoid future tiny surveys!
Joining together is easy, and so it is a strength of the method that there is no need to wait until you have finished surveying. Complete your Therion centerline and drawing at the end of each day!
Bruce
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Nick Bairstow *Sent:* Wednesday, 15 July 2015 6:42 a.m. *To:* 'List for Therion users' *Subject:* [Therion] Additions To Pocket Topo Data
Hi, If I bring Pocket Topo data/sketch into Therion with Top Parser and draw up the survey and then go back to the cave and add more stuff to the original topo file using say the continue here option is it possible to somehow easily get/replace the amended topo data into the original .th2 file and retain the scrap work already done or do I have to create a new survey. Obviously I can amend the .th with a text editor.
I sometimes find myself waiting to draw things up whilst I get time to go back to get the last bits of the survey done so everything is in one file and I don’t have to join it all together.
Sorry if this is a bit of a stupid question but if you don’t ask you never find out.
Nick Bairstow
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Ok, thanks for all the advice. It makes perfect sense to keep surveys separate rather than just adding to an older one. I do find that on some of my first surveys I missed detail I needed which is one of the reasons I asked this question but as you correctly said Andrew I can import a new xvi file. I didn't realise you could do this so once I work out how to position it correctly this should work OK. The .th I can do in a text editor. So the lesson learnt here is improve my technique/workflow, get a system going and stick to it this then should avoid having to do the above. Thanks again everybody, Nick. -----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Andrew Atkinson Sent: 15 July 2015 09:14 To: therion@speleo.sk Subject: Re: [Therion] Additions To Pocket Topo Data Nick I have written topParser, following what I do, with a little adaptation for other methods that I know about when people ask me. I try to strctly follow the one survey trip, one file methodology, so what you are trying to do is not implemented, and to be truthful it would be very hard to do, I think. I would suggest that organising files by surveys trip (A caving trip to survey 2 parts of a cave counts as 2 trips, as starting a survey and going back to the same spot) The reason that I do this is although it looks very verbose at the start, as projects become large it actually makes data organisation easier. Mixing data can lead to difficulties latter, the obvious problem is that if the instrument is in different calibration, or worse out of calibration, this might not be discovered until later, say when a look is closed, it is easier to find and remove these sort of things if they are grouped together. There are probably many ways to do this sort of thing, I find this works for me. As Bruce said joining is easy, so long as the sketches are not joined on a junction and when you get further into the power of therion, you will probably find that more smaller sections with joins is what you want, I have certainly found myself having to go back and split scraps up to get to some final outputs. However, if you really want to amend a drawing, for things like going back and adding more detail to an existing top file, the th2 can be generated, this also generates an xvi file which is the underlying drawing. This can then be imported into your th2 file, either through the front end or in a text editor. Guess I could add an option only to generate the xvi files, which should help and is reasonably easy. I will add it to the todo list. Amending an existing th file automatically is the sort of thing that could lead to all sorts of trouble and is way beyond the simplicity of topParser. I would say that manually doing it is the best option, best method is probably to generate the new th file and as you say paste over the relevant bits manually Andrew On 14/07/15 21:05, Bruce wrote:
Nick
I don't know the answer to your question. I have always created a new .top file for a new day or new survey segment (separated from previous survey legs that day). Hence I am careful not to leave any small or isolated bits of passage unsurveyed, to avoid future tiny surveys!
Joining together is easy, and so it is a strength of the method that there is no need to wait until you have finished surveying. Complete your Therion centerline and drawing at the end of each day!
Bruce
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Nick Bairstow *Sent:* Wednesday, 15 July 2015 6:42 a.m. *To:* 'List for Therion users' *Subject:* [Therion] Additions To Pocket Topo Data
Hi, If I bring Pocket Topo data/sketch into Therion with Top Parser and draw up the survey and then go back to the cave and add more stuff to the original topo file using say the continue here option is it possible to somehow easily get/replace the amended topo data into the original .th2 file and retain the scrap work already done or do I have to create a new survey. Obviously I can amend the .th with a text editor.
I sometimes find myself waiting to draw things up whilst I get time to go back to get the last bits of the survey done so everything is in one file and I don't have to join it all together.
Sorry if this is a bit of a stupid question but if you don't ask you never find out.
Nick Bairstow
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
On 16/07/15 11:35, Nick Bairstow wrote:
Ok, thanks for all the advice. It makes perfect sense to keep surveys separate rather than just adding to an older one. I do find that on some of my first surveys I missed detail I needed which is one of the reasons I asked this question but as you correctly said Andrew I can import a new xvi file. I didn't realise you could do this so once I work out how to position it correctly this should work OK.
I think that just replacing the original xvi with the new xvi (overwriting) you will find that it is in the same position, if it has been generated by topParser, it picks the first station as 0, 0 and that should not change if you are just adding more detail. Not actually tried it, don't forget backups :-) Andrew
16. 7. 2015 v 19:33, Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
I think that just replacing the original xvi with the new xvi (overwriting) you will find that it is in the same position, if it has been generated by topParser, it picks the first station as 0, 0 and that should not change if you are just adding more detail. Not actually tried it, don't forget backups :-)
Anyway, in right side menu of xterion map editor are fields with coordinates of left-bottom corner of particular image. You may edit these coordinates manually to place any background image to correct position. BTW, there are several such fields in map editor. Check them, they could be useful. m.s.
Yes, I found the field in the map editor where you can import xvi files. The one I tried did not come in at 0,0 though maybe because I still had the original file in the editor as well but as Martin says it's easy to change the coordinates here. A bit more experimentation this weekend should sort this. Nick. -----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka Sent: 17 July 2015 06:19 To: List for Therion users Subject: Re: [Therion] Additions To Pocket Topo Data
16. 7. 2015 v 19:33, Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
I think that just replacing the original xvi with the new xvi (overwriting) you will find that it is in the same position, if it has been generated by topParser, it picks the first station as 0, 0 and that should not change if you are just adding more detail. Not actually tried it, don't forget backups :-)
Anyway, in right side menu of xterion map editor are fields with coordinates of left-bottom corner of particular image. You may edit these coordinates manually to place any background image to correct position. BTW, there are several such fields in map editor. Check them, they could be useful. m.s. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Hi, Therion’s idea is that a survey on base level is something as documentation of one survey trip. Including log, etc. PocketTopo will connect automatically all .top files in one folder. Than file you actually survey should be editable, another ones not. m.s.
14. 7. 2015 v 20:42, Nick Bairstow <Nick@pff.uk.com>:
Hi, If I bring Pocket Topo data/sketch into Therion with Top Parser and draw up the survey and then go back to the cave and add more stuff to the original topo file using say the continue here option is it possible to somehow easily get/replace the amended topo data into the original .th2 file and retain the scrap work already done or do I have to create a new survey. Obviously I can amend the .th with a text editor. I sometimes find myself waiting to draw things up whilst I get time to go back to get the last bits of the survey done so everything is in one file and I don’t have to join it all together. Sorry if this is a bit of a stupid question but if you don’t ask you never find out.
Nick Bairstow _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
participants (4)
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Andrew Atkinson -
Bruce -
Martin Sluka -
Nick Bairstow