Hi Markus, Not sure if it is the place to discuss about that but as a caver what I see is that I’m 42 years old and I’m among the youngest cavers of our area (in southern France), caving is not fun and fashionable anymore so I’m not to worried about an increase in the cave visits. As a scientist I’m more worried by the lost of invaluable data of cave surveys. These data will bring a better understanding karst systems and network and cavers are not aware of the work they have done/are doing. I had to resurvey 9km of a cave that where lost, and there are many more lost data. From your comment I see that “paranoia” seems to be a worldwide behavior of the cavers being afraid of someone stilling “their” caves, but unfortunately many data are lost due to that behavior. Don’t take it personally or be angry about that it is just an observation. I’ve seen the same behavior about the Grottocenter database (which I’m not part of it) but I doubt that there has been an increase in cavers/accident/visits due to that database, at least in my area... Best, Phil
On 3 Sep 2019, at 19:10, Markus Boldt <markus.boldt@gmx.net> wrote:
Dear Phil, in fact it is a good Idea and a great work. But... But there are some evident problems, if I would give you "my" data from "our" caves - for example. There are often at some projects a lot of surveyors over the years. So I have to ask them all. In germany the data are archieved until now in so called "Kataster". Every karst region has one. There is a person (mostly some) who has the confidence of all cavers in the particular region. There is an agreement that I am (or my collegues) not allowed to give that data to an public institution so that these data will be very public in the future. Only cavers (or caverclubs) who are working for the "Kataster" have an access to these data. And additionally to that there are some Clubs in germany who do there data to the Kataster but it is not really seeable for other users (Keyword: Competition) . You write that is also possible at your website but only maximum 5 years. Our Kataster is working with "Spelix" since two years now. This program is made from a caver from austria. All the possibilities I have seen until now in your release and more are implemented in that program. But not reachable for the public. The risk of your site is that everyone will have informations from the caves and so the numbers of visits to the caves will increase, I think. And please there are often "so called" cavers (often from clubs also) who are taking so such informations, to go in caves during holidays without having contact to the cavers from that region. That is not what we want for our caves because it is an extremely sensitive environment. This comment is from me personnel. Others in Germany may have another opinion. Please take it only as an information and be not angry about that (do a look to my first sentence). best regards Markus
Von: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk <mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk>] Im Auftrag von Philippe Vernant Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. September 2019 15:12 An: List for Therion users Betreff: [Therion] Karst3D database, a quick overview.
Hi guys,
We’ve just launched a database to archive cave survey data. Our database relies a lot on Therion, and I’d like to thank the developers for their great job! I’d like to do the same for the developer of Cave View !
This is a big beta release and we hope to make it better with more option in the future (DEM, statistical analysis of the karst network, etc.): https://data.oreme.org/observation/karst3d <https://data.oreme.org/observation/karst3d>
I’d be happy to have your feedback, specially if you decide to upload some data. We’ve chosen to have the opportunity of an embargo time before releasing the data, you can choose between 0 and 5 years, but since it is a public university we have to make the data archived public a some point. But the 3D view will be online soon after you upload the data.
Here is a short tutorial on how to visualize several caves at the same time.
Looking forward to have your feedback.
Phil
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