Hello, I have Stations like this in a survey: fix wiesenponor 391349.0 5650631.0 154 station wiesenponor "Wiesenponor" sink fix quelleinderagger 391952.0 5650078.0 125 station quelleinderagger "Quelle in der Agger" spring fix aggertalhoehle 391124 5650259 150 station aggertalhoehle "Aggertalhöhle" entrance fix gipfel 391528 5650356 254.3 station gipfel "Gipfel Mühlenberg" Is there a way to display Icons for these (but not for all stations) and the Comments (e.g. "Gipfel Mühlenberg") in the map without creating a scrap and retyping them there? I checked the MetaPost files and found no obvious way to enable that. Regards --max
Max Does this start to solve your problem? https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/faq?s[]=fixed&s[]=stations#how_do_i_print_only_cave_or_surface_stations_with_a_particular_mark_ie_fixed_or_painted I use this always to show only fixed or painted station symbols, but I don't think I have ever had luck with combined control of both underground and surface stations. I think you are wanting selective labelling, which is a bit more of a refinement. Your labels will show up in Loch as they are entered now, but the trick is to get them into a pdf map. There was a thread last year about boxed labels, that led to more ability to control the labelling in general (not just around boxes). https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg07230.html https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg07234.html I was going to write it up in the wiki, but never got around to it, and now I forget exactly how it works and what it could be used for. Will have to wait until I again have time and inspiration. Anyway, combining the above two 'things' could lead to the possibility of labelling some fixed points and not labelling others (or maybe not). Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Max D Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2019 00:37 To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] Display Station comments on Map? Hello, I have Stations like this in a survey: fix wiesenponor 391349.0 5650631.0 154 station wiesenponor "Wiesenponor" sink fix quelleinderagger 391952.0 5650078.0 125 station quelleinderagger "Quelle in der Agger" spring fix aggertalhoehle 391124 5650259 150 station aggertalhoehle "Aggertalhöhle" entrance fix gipfel 391528 5650356 254.3 station gipfel "Gipfel Mühlenberg" Is there a way to display Icons for these (but not for all stations) and the Comments (e.g. "Gipfel Mühlenberg") in the map without creating a scrap and retyping them there? I checked the MetaPost files and found no obvious way to enable that. Regards --max _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
On 2. Sep 2019, at 21:25, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:
Max Does this start to solve your problem? ... I use this always to show only fixed or painted station symbols, but I don't think I have ever had luck with combined control of both underground and surface stations.
Thanks for the Pointers. I think Therion data structures has no concept of "surface stations" - only shots have that attached. But I might be wrong. I'm still fiddeling, but this is enough to display station comments: layyout showcomments code metapost def p_station(expr pos,mark,txt)(text flags) = p_station_SKBB(pos,mark,txt,flags) T:=identity shifted pos; if picture(txt): p_smartlabel(txt,pos); fi; enddef; endcode endlayout To me it seems that the "flags" parameter in therion 5.4.4+b998d1b (2019-06-12) is always empty. Not sure if this is a bug or if I'm missing something. The p_station_SKBB() macro has a lot of code for handling different flags which seems to be unused. --max
Hi guys, We’ve just launched a database to archive cave survey data. Our database relies a lot on Therion, and I’d like to thank the developers for their great job! I’d like to do the same for the developer of Cave View ! This is a big beta release and we hope to make it better with more option in the future (DEM, statistical analysis of the karst network, etc.): https://data.oreme.org/observation/karst3d <https://data.oreme.org/observation/karst3d> I’d be happy to have your feedback, specially if you decide to upload some data. We’ve chosen to have the opportunity of an embargo time before releasing the data, you can choose between 0 and 5 years, but since it is a public university we have to make the data archived public a some point. But the 3D view will be online soon after you upload the data. Here is a short tutorial on how to visualize several caves at the same time. Looking forward to have your feedback. Phil
Dear Phil, in fact it is a good Idea and a great work. But... But there are some evident problems, if I would give you "my" data from "our" caves - for example. There are often at some projects a lot of surveyors over the years. So I have to ask them all. In germany the data are archieved until now in so called "Kataster". Every karst region has one. There is a person (mostly some) who has the confidence of all cavers in the particular region. There is an agreement that I am (or my collegues) not allowed to give that data to an public institution so that these data will be very public in the future. Only cavers (or caverclubs) who are working for the "Kataster" have an access to these data. And additionally to that there are some Clubs in germany who do there data to the Kataster but it is not really seeable for other users (Keyword: Competition) . You write that is also possible at your website but only maximum 5 years. Our Kataster is working with "Spelix" since two years now. This program is made from a caver from austria. All the possibilities I have seen until now in your release and more are implemented in that program. But not reachable for the public. The risk of your site is that everyone will have informations from the caves and so the numbers of visits to the caves will increase, I think. And please there are often "so called" cavers (often from clubs also) who are taking so such informations, to go in caves during holidays without having contact to the cavers from that region. That is not what we want for our caves because it is an extremely sensitive environment. This comment is from me personnel. Others in Germany may have another opinion. Please take it only as an information and be not angry about that (do a look to my first sentence). best regards Markus Von: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] Im Auftrag von Philippe Vernant Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. September 2019 15:12 An: List for Therion users Betreff: [Therion] Karst3D database, a quick overview. Hi guys, We’ve just launched a database to archive cave survey data. Our database relies a lot on Therion, and I’d like to thank the developers for their great job! I’d like to do the same for the developer of Cave View ! This is a big beta release and we hope to make it better with more option in the future (DEM, statistical analysis of the karst network, etc.): https://data.oreme.org/observation/karst3d I’d be happy to have your feedback, specially if you decide to upload some data. We’ve chosen to have the opportunity of an embargo time before releasing the data, you can choose between 0 and 5 years, but since it is a public university we have to make the data archived public a some point. But the 3D view will be online soon after you upload the data. Here is a short tutorial on how to visualize several caves at the same time. Looking forward to have your feedback. Phil
Hi Markus, Not sure if it is the place to discuss about that but as a caver what I see is that I’m 42 years old and I’m among the youngest cavers of our area (in southern France), caving is not fun and fashionable anymore so I’m not to worried about an increase in the cave visits. As a scientist I’m more worried by the lost of invaluable data of cave surveys. These data will bring a better understanding karst systems and network and cavers are not aware of the work they have done/are doing. I had to resurvey 9km of a cave that where lost, and there are many more lost data. From your comment I see that “paranoia” seems to be a worldwide behavior of the cavers being afraid of someone stilling “their” caves, but unfortunately many data are lost due to that behavior. Don’t take it personally or be angry about that it is just an observation. I’ve seen the same behavior about the Grottocenter database (which I’m not part of it) but I doubt that there has been an increase in cavers/accident/visits due to that database, at least in my area... Best, Phil
On 3 Sep 2019, at 19:10, Markus Boldt <markus.boldt@gmx.net> wrote:
Dear Phil, in fact it is a good Idea and a great work. But... But there are some evident problems, if I would give you "my" data from "our" caves - for example. There are often at some projects a lot of surveyors over the years. So I have to ask them all. In germany the data are archieved until now in so called "Kataster". Every karst region has one. There is a person (mostly some) who has the confidence of all cavers in the particular region. There is an agreement that I am (or my collegues) not allowed to give that data to an public institution so that these data will be very public in the future. Only cavers (or caverclubs) who are working for the "Kataster" have an access to these data. And additionally to that there are some Clubs in germany who do there data to the Kataster but it is not really seeable for other users (Keyword: Competition) . You write that is also possible at your website but only maximum 5 years. Our Kataster is working with "Spelix" since two years now. This program is made from a caver from austria. All the possibilities I have seen until now in your release and more are implemented in that program. But not reachable for the public. The risk of your site is that everyone will have informations from the caves and so the numbers of visits to the caves will increase, I think. And please there are often "so called" cavers (often from clubs also) who are taking so such informations, to go in caves during holidays without having contact to the cavers from that region. That is not what we want for our caves because it is an extremely sensitive environment. This comment is from me personnel. Others in Germany may have another opinion. Please take it only as an information and be not angry about that (do a look to my first sentence). best regards Markus
Von: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk <mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk>] Im Auftrag von Philippe Vernant Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. September 2019 15:12 An: List for Therion users Betreff: [Therion] Karst3D database, a quick overview.
Hi guys,
We’ve just launched a database to archive cave survey data. Our database relies a lot on Therion, and I’d like to thank the developers for their great job! I’d like to do the same for the developer of Cave View !
This is a big beta release and we hope to make it better with more option in the future (DEM, statistical analysis of the karst network, etc.): https://data.oreme.org/observation/karst3d <https://data.oreme.org/observation/karst3d>
I’d be happy to have your feedback, specially if you decide to upload some data. We’ve chosen to have the opportunity of an embargo time before releasing the data, you can choose between 0 and 5 years, but since it is a public university we have to make the data archived public a some point. But the 3D view will be online soon after you upload the data.
Here is a short tutorial on how to visualize several caves at the same time.
Looking forward to have your feedback.
Phil
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion <https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion>
On 3. Sep 2019, at 14:35, Max D <md@foxel.org> wrote:
To me it seems that the "flags" parameter in therion 5.4.4+b998d1b (2019-06-12) is always empty. Not sure if this is a bug or if I'm missing something. The p_station_SKBB() macro has a lot of code for handling different flags which seems to be unused.
I produced a patch for therion which makes it display all flags for "station" entries. I'm not very firm with MetaPost and Therion internal structures, but it seems to me, the original code simply could not work. OR I just did not understand. The patch is at. https://gist.github.com/mdornseif/3b3764844cae2f6274726674a9c68a0f https://tug.org/pipermail/metapost/2006-February/000527.html helped me to understand what is going on in MetaPost. --max
Hmm, I have not time to look into this, don't really understand much about metapost at all, but my recollection is that I could get all the features implied in the code of the original p_station to manifest in outputs (at least of centrelines, if not scraps). If you have removed code, then I suggest others look very carefully before this is committed. Although looking at your diff, it seem like you have taken little if anything out, so maybe my concern is unfounded? Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Max D Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2019 08:05 To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: Re: [Therion] Display Station comments on Map?
On 3. Sep 2019, at 14:35, Max D <md@foxel.org> wrote:
To me it seems that the "flags" parameter in therion 5.4.4+b998d1b (2019-06-12) is always empty. Not sure if this is a bug or if I'm missing something. The p_station_SKBB() macro has a lot of code for handling different flags which seems to be unused.
I produced a patch for therion which makes it display all flags for "station" entries. I'm not very firm with MetaPost and Therion internal structures, but it seems to me, the original code simply could not work. OR I just did not understand. The patch is at. https://gist.github.com/mdornseif/3b3764844cae2f6274726674a9c68a0f https://tug.org/pipermail/metapost/2006-February/000527.html helped me to understand what is going on in MetaPost. --max _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
On 3. Sep 2019, at 22:32, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:
Hmm, I have not time to look into this, don't really understand much about metapost at all, but my recollection is that I could get all the features implied in the code of the original p_station to manifest in outputs (at least of centrelines, if not scraps). If you have removed code, then I suggest others look very carefully before this is committed. Although looking at your diff, it seem like you have taken little if anything out, so maybe my concern is unfounded?
This certainly should not be committed. * I removed the "is this flag defined in this symbol set" check * I also changed the calling convention for p_station 🙀 So this is definitively only Proof of Concept. --max
Hi Max, To your original question, I achieved something similar a while ago using station comments to create an overlay for fixed stations, and another for continuations. The pdf outputs are attached. While the programmatic selection of stations to display would be a nice to have, it is relatively painless to do what you want manually. These were achieved using a th2 file with a dedicated scrap, as you hinted at, however, I didn't need to plot all the stations - it is sufficient just to include the station names in the scrap -stations command, making this a very viable approach. I've included the entire th2 file below - as you can see there is a long list of station names in the scrap command, and only three points actually plotted (I can't remember why these three were plotted manually, sorry. In the fixed stations list, I had to manually plot fixed stations that were created in the cave but not yet actually tied into to the survey line - my intention was that these would be surveyed eventually, at which point I would not have to manually draw them in). It wasn't very onerous generating the th2 file - I basically searched all my the files for the stations, manipulated the search output to create the list of station names, and then copied the list into my th2 file; job done. In fact one could easily write a script that did all of that and just output the entire th2 file. The full Therion survey with the metapost definitions of the station points that I used is available at http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/CheddarCatchment/UpperFlood. Start with the thconfig files called thconfig.UF_Fixed.tp and thconfig.UF_Continuations.tp respectively. Here's the th2 scrap: scrap Continuations_s1 -projection plan -stations [M2d@MCGPaper.Entrance M11d@MCGPaper.Entrance 11d@MidnightChamber.Entrance BS10@MCGPaper.Entrance r4d@CC.GoldenChamber r14@CC.GoldenChamber 31d@BoulderChoke 34@Leg1.MalcolmsWay 35@Leg1.MalcolmsWay 2@Leg2.MalcolmsWay MW55@MW.WalkThePlankChamber ws11@WallStreetCC.WallStreet 1.17@WallStreetDig.WallStreet 1.0a@Disto.CharnelPassage 1.23@Disto.CharnelPassage 27@Pony.RoyalIcing 1.2a@HiddenPassage.RoyalIcing 1.9@HiddenPassage.RoyalIcing 10@EP_Pony.EastPassage 11@EP_Pony.EastPassage 22d@EP_Pony.EastPassage 23@EP_Pony.EastPassage 32@EP_Pony.EastPassage 45@EP_Pony.EastPassage 49@EP_Pony.EastPassage 51@EP_Pony.EastPassage 4b@DeepPoolTube.EastPassage 14@DownUnder.EastPassage 21@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 31@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 35@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 45@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 49@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 62@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 63@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 66@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 67@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 1.38@Disto.SouthPassage 1.40@Disto.SouthPassage 1.51@Disto.SouthPassage 1.0@WPDisto.WestPassage 2.2d@WPDisto.WestPassage 2.5@WPDisto.WestPassage 2.18@WPDisto.WestPassage F1@NeverlandCC.Neverland G1@NeverlandCC.Neverland H1@NeverlandCC.Neverland 3.35@NeverlandDisto.Neverland 18@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland 33@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland 47@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland] -scale [-128.0 -128.0 14706.8877 -128.0 0.0 0.0 376.80614758 0.0 m] point 2344.46 6494.81 station -name 46@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland point 10441.94 4602.38 station -name 35@EP_Pony.EastPassage point 4582.73 16269.96 station -name E0@MCGPaper.Entrance endscrap Best regards, Ben
Thanks Ben Two new insights for me in your examples. I create surface station maps with flags like in your examples, but have never thought to include a previewed cave map as well - obvious really! And I had not appreciated how to use the -station option for scraps, much easier than drawing them all in the scrap! Very timely for me, as I am just in the middle of an interesting surface feature - cave feature mapping exercise, and Google Earth does not provide the same level of refinement. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Ben Cooper Sent: Friday, 6 September 2019 03:52 To: 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: Re: [Therion] Display Station comments on Map? Hi Max, To your original question, I achieved something similar a while ago using station comments to create an overlay for fixed stations, and another for continuations. The pdf outputs are attached. While the programmatic selection of stations to display would be a nice to have, it is relatively painless to do what you want manually. These were achieved using a th2 file with a dedicated scrap, as you hinted at, however, I didn't need to plot all the stations - it is sufficient just to include the station names in the scrap -stations command, making this a very viable approach. I've included the entire th2 file below - as you can see there is a long list of station names in the scrap command, and only three points actually plotted (I can't remember why these three were plotted manually, sorry. In the fixed stations list, I had to manually plot fixed stations that were created in the cave but not yet actually tied into to the survey line - my intention was that these would be surveyed eventually, at which point I would not have to manually draw them in). It wasn't very onerous generating the th2 file - I basically searched all my the files for the stations, manipulated the search output to create the list of station names, and then copied the list into my th2 file; job done. In fact one could easily write a script that did all of that and just output the entire th2 file. The full Therion survey with the metapost definitions of the station points that I used is available at http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/CheddarCatchment/UpperFlood. Start with the thconfig files called thconfig.UF_Fixed.tp and thconfig.UF_Continuations.tp respectively. Here's the th2 scrap: scrap Continuations_s1 -projection plan -stations [M2d@MCGPaper.Entrance M11d@MCGPaper.Entrance 11d@MidnightChamber.Entrance BS10@MCGPaper.Entrance r4d@CC.GoldenChamber r14@CC.GoldenChamber 31d@BoulderChoke 34@Leg1.MalcolmsWay 35@Leg1.MalcolmsWay 2@Leg2.MalcolmsWay MW55@MW.WalkThePlankChamber ws11@WallStreetCC.WallStreet 1.17@WallStreetDig.WallStreet 1.0a@Disto.CharnelPassage 1.23@Disto.CharnelPassage 27@Pony.RoyalIcing 1.2a@HiddenPassage.RoyalIcing 1.9@HiddenPassage.RoyalIcing 10@EP_Pony.EastPassage 11@EP_Pony.EastPassage 22d@EP_Pony.EastPassage 23@EP_Pony.EastPassage 32@EP_Pony.EastPassage 45@EP_Pony.EastPassage 49@EP_Pony.EastPassage 51@EP_Pony.EastPassage 4b@DeepPoolTube.EastPassage 14@DownUnder.EastPassage 21@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 31@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 35@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 45@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 49@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 62@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 63@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 66@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 67@BZA_Pony.BeyondZebraAven.EastPassage 1.38@Disto.SouthPassage 1.40@Disto.SouthPassage 1.51@Disto.SouthPassage 1.0@WPDisto.WestPassage 2.2d@WPDisto.WestPassage 2.5@WPDisto.WestPassage 2.18@WPDisto.WestPassage F1@NeverlandCC.Neverland G1@NeverlandCC.Neverland H1@NeverlandCC.Neverland 3.35@NeverlandDisto.Neverland 18@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland 33@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland 47@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland] -scale [-128.0 -128.0 14706.8877 -128.0 0.0 0.0 376.80614758 0.0 m] point 2344.46 6494.81 station -name 46@NeverlandRopeClimb.Neverland point 10441.94 4602.38 station -name 35@EP_Pony.EastPassage point 4582.73 16269.96 station -name E0@MCGPaper.Entrance endscrap Best regards, Ben
participants (5)
-
Ben Cooper -
Bruce Mutton -
Markus Boldt -
Max D -
Philippe Vernant