[Therion] easyer to handle?

[Stacho Mudrak]

Thanks Juergen for your feedback - we appreciate it a lot.

Regards, S.

Juergen Bohnert wrote:
> Hi Stacho,
> 
> you are absolutely right, Therion has the basic functionality that is 
> needed to keep a cave map up to date. And it is a reliable work horse.
> 
> We should always remind ourselves that there is no other software that 
> has the flexibility of Therion combined with this platform-independent 
> and open source approach when it comes to cave cartography.
> I repeat, no other!
> Therion sets the high standard to which all other programs have to be 
> compared...
> 
> CAD for caves is a nice piece of software, but it needs a non-open 
> source system (AutoCAD) which you can only obtain at a price that 
> prevents most cavers from buying it.
> 
> Although the Therion GUI might be a bit old-fashioned, it still does the 
> job. It is not as fancy as AutoCAD and CorelDraw, but since I know both 
> programs I have to admit that it didn't take me much longer to get 
> accustomed to it.
> 
> OK, I admit that the GUI could be a bit "renovated", but in my opinion 
> this is a mid- to long-term thing... function is more important than 
> look and feel.
> 
> And since Therion is an open-source project every caver can contribute 
> to improving this software package....
> 
> And instead of creating completely new cave mapping software I would 
> rather prefer an approach of building modules within the Therion 
> framework which means at least using the Therion data format.
> 
> Therion might not be the best tool for the casual cave cartographer but 
> it is definitely the best tool if you are into long-term GIS-based 
> mapping of complex cave systems with multiple entrances and frequent 
> survey shot changes e.g. based on refinement of already existing surveys 
> by radio location or loop-closure. Try that in AutoCAD... very 
> cumbersome ....
> 
> Therion definetely closes the gap between conventional GIS, CAD and cave 
> survey visualization software...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Juergen
> 
> 
> 
> Stacho Mudrak schrieb:
> 
>  > Quoting Stefan Oswald <stefan_oswald at gmx.at>:
>  >
>  >> We draw on therion in our caving club, but we have a few problems, 
> which i
>  >> want to report to you, we also have made a little "brainstorming"...
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Thanks for your feedback. You are asking very difficult questions, 
> but I will
>  > try to answer...
>  >
>  >
>  >> It is always very difficult to introduce new people, no software 
> engineers,
>  >> into therion, also i had great problems.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > You are right, but...
>  >
>  >> From time to time we get a crazy idea - that we will start 
> programming much
>  >
>  > more simple therion again from the scratch. But when we start to 
> analyze again all functionality that is definitely needed,
>  > we are not able to find data model, that is much more simple
>  > than current state.
>  >
>  >
>  >> The map editor user interface gives
>  >> many options, but thereby it is not really easy to handle, the same 
> with the
>  >> layout. It is difficult to produce a good looking plan-layout with 
> text and
>  >> so on.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Well, I am afraid you will never get really good looking map with all 
> bells and
>  > whistles from therion. Our goal was to have a system, where we can have
>  > complete, up to date and very flexible documentation of the cave. For 
> this, we
>  > are now paying price of good looking cave map. But if you have 
> several tens of
>  > km cave with multiple levels and passages that connects to each other 
> - even
>  > schematic map in therion is a pain, not a precisely drawn map with 
> all the
>  > details... At least in our situation, when we do not have a lot of free
>  > time...
>  >
>  >
>  >> A generall icon-interface, such as most leading CAD programmes use 
> would be
>  >> much more efficient in our opinion. Is this planed in final version?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > The main problem of therion user interface is, that it is not 
> standard vector
>  > drawing interface. Here I 100% agree. But I am afraid - I have no 
> resources to
>  > start working on another CADlike interface.
>  >
>  >> In Therion you draw something and you do not know what it will 
> exactly  look like. For handling the Programm it would be easyer if you 
> could  immediately see the result without pressing F9, opening the .pdf, 
> take a look
>  >> at the result, close it again (Windows) and return to therion.
>  >> just an idea.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On Windows it is a problem of acrobat reader - I usually use 
> ghostscript, when
>  > I
>  > need check how it looks frequently. I have tried several times to control
>  > Acrobat Reader from xtherion - but without success. I do not know, 
> what is
>  > going wrong - but from version to version, Adobe Acrobat Reader has 
> different
>  > behaviour when controled from other program.
>  >
>  > I would like to add some features to xtherion in this case (e.g. 
> showing some
>  > symbols instead of simple dots). But it is only in TODO.
>  >
>  >
>  >> Also showing other scraps (.th2 files) in map editor, as with CAD 
> for Cavers
>  >> (Autocad) would be an option.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Yes, it would be great. But I am afraid - with the current state of 
> the code in
>  > xtherion, this is not possible...
>  >
>  >
>  >> To abstract we mean placing focus on usability would make it easyer 
> for many
>  >> people using therion, not only in our club.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > This would be great, but it implies very deep changes in the system 
> design and
>  > currently I have no resources to do that.
>  > When I started therion - I was single and student. Now I am married, I am
>  > working and I have three little children. I am really happy if I find 
> time to
>  > fix bugs, add little features or go to the cave
>  >
>  > Best regards, S.
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