[Therion] easyer to handle?
Stacho Mudrak
s.m at group-s.sk
Tue Feb 12 20:58:00 CET 2008
Thanks Juergen for your feedback - we appreciate it a lot.
Regards, S.
Juergen Bohnert wrote:
> Hi Stacho,
>
> you are absolutely right, Therion has the basic functionality that is
> needed to keep a cave map up to date. And it is a reliable work horse.
>
> We should always remind ourselves that there is no other software that
> has the flexibility of Therion combined with this platform-independent
> and open source approach when it comes to cave cartography.
> I repeat, no other!
> Therion sets the high standard to which all other programs have to be
> compared...
>
> CAD for caves is a nice piece of software, but it needs a non-open
> source system (AutoCAD) which you can only obtain at a price that
> prevents most cavers from buying it.
>
> Although the Therion GUI might be a bit old-fashioned, it still does the
> job. It is not as fancy as AutoCAD and CorelDraw, but since I know both
> programs I have to admit that it didn't take me much longer to get
> accustomed to it.
>
> OK, I admit that the GUI could be a bit "renovated", but in my opinion
> this is a mid- to long-term thing... function is more important than
> look and feel.
>
> And since Therion is an open-source project every caver can contribute
> to improving this software package....
>
> And instead of creating completely new cave mapping software I would
> rather prefer an approach of building modules within the Therion
> framework which means at least using the Therion data format.
>
> Therion might not be the best tool for the casual cave cartographer but
> it is definitely the best tool if you are into long-term GIS-based
> mapping of complex cave systems with multiple entrances and frequent
> survey shot changes e.g. based on refinement of already existing surveys
> by radio location or loop-closure. Try that in AutoCAD... very
> cumbersome ....
>
> Therion definetely closes the gap between conventional GIS, CAD and cave
> survey visualization software...
>
> Regards,
>
> Juergen
>
>
>
> Stacho Mudrak schrieb:
>
> > Quoting Stefan Oswald <stefan_oswald at gmx.at>:
> >
> >> We draw on therion in our caving club, but we have a few problems,
> which i
> >> want to report to you, we also have made a little "brainstorming"...
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback. You are asking very difficult questions,
> but I will
> > try to answer...
> >
> >
> >> It is always very difficult to introduce new people, no software
> engineers,
> >> into therion, also i had great problems.
> >
> >
> >
> > You are right, but...
> >
> >> From time to time we get a crazy idea - that we will start
> programming much
> >
> > more simple therion again from the scratch. But when we start to
> analyze again all functionality that is definitely needed,
> > we are not able to find data model, that is much more simple
> > than current state.
> >
> >
> >> The map editor user interface gives
> >> many options, but thereby it is not really easy to handle, the same
> with the
> >> layout. It is difficult to produce a good looking plan-layout with
> text and
> >> so on.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, I am afraid you will never get really good looking map with all
> bells and
> > whistles from therion. Our goal was to have a system, where we can have
> > complete, up to date and very flexible documentation of the cave. For
> this, we
> > are now paying price of good looking cave map. But if you have
> several tens of
> > km cave with multiple levels and passages that connects to each other
> - even
> > schematic map in therion is a pain, not a precisely drawn map with
> all the
> > details... At least in our situation, when we do not have a lot of free
> > time...
> >
> >
> >> A generall icon-interface, such as most leading CAD programmes use
> would be
> >> much more efficient in our opinion. Is this planed in final version?
> >
> >
> >
> > The main problem of therion user interface is, that it is not
> standard vector
> > drawing interface. Here I 100% agree. But I am afraid - I have no
> resources to
> > start working on another CADlike interface.
> >
> >> In Therion you draw something and you do not know what it will
> exactly look like. For handling the Programm it would be easyer if you
> could immediately see the result without pressing F9, opening the .pdf,
> take a look
> >> at the result, close it again (Windows) and return to therion.
> >> just an idea.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Windows it is a problem of acrobat reader - I usually use
> ghostscript, when
> > I
> > need check how it looks frequently. I have tried several times to control
> > Acrobat Reader from xtherion - but without success. I do not know,
> what is
> > going wrong - but from version to version, Adobe Acrobat Reader has
> different
> > behaviour when controled from other program.
> >
> > I would like to add some features to xtherion in this case (e.g.
> showing some
> > symbols instead of simple dots). But it is only in TODO.
> >
> >
> >> Also showing other scraps (.th2 files) in map editor, as with CAD
> for Cavers
> >> (Autocad) would be an option.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, it would be great. But I am afraid - with the current state of
> the code in
> > xtherion, this is not possible...
> >
> >
> >> To abstract we mean placing focus on usability would make it easyer
> for many
> >> people using therion, not only in our club.
> >
> >
> >
> > This would be great, but it implies very deep changes in the system
> design and
> > currently I have no resources to do that.
> > When I started therion - I was single and student. Now I am married, I am
> > working and I have three little children. I am really happy if I find
> time to
> > fix bugs, add little features or go to the cave
> >
> > Best regards, S.
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> > Therion at speleo.sk
> > http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
>
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