[Therion] easyer to handle?

[Juergen Bohnert]

Hi Stacho,

you are absolutely right, Therion has the basic functionality that is 
needed to keep a cave map up to date. And it is a reliable work horse.

We should always remind ourselves that there is no other software that 
has the flexibility of Therion combined with this platform-independent 
and open source approach when it comes to cave cartography.
I repeat, no other!
Therion sets the high standard to which all other programs have to be 
compared...

CAD for caves is a nice piece of software, but it needs a non-open 
source system (AutoCAD) which you can only obtain at a price that 
prevents most cavers from buying it.

Although the Therion GUI might be a bit old-fashioned, it still does the 
job. It is not as fancy as AutoCAD and CorelDraw, but since I know both 
programs I have to admit that it didn't take me much longer to get 
accustomed to it.

OK, I admit that the GUI could be a bit "renovated", but in my opinion 
this is a mid- to long-term thing... function is more important than 
look and feel.

And since Therion is an open-source project every caver can contribute 
to improving this software package....

And instead of creating completely new cave mapping software I would 
rather prefer an approach of building modules within the Therion 
framework which means at least using the Therion data format.

Therion might not be the best tool for the casual cave cartographer but 
it is definitely the best tool if you are into long-term GIS-based 
mapping of complex cave systems with multiple entrances and frequent 
survey shot changes e.g. based on refinement of already existing surveys 
by radio location or loop-closure. Try that in AutoCAD... very 
cumbersome ....

Therion definetely closes the gap between conventional GIS, CAD and cave 
survey visualization software...

Regards,

Juergen



Stacho Mudrak schrieb:

 > Quoting Stefan Oswald <stefan_oswald at gmx.at>:
 >
 >> We draw on therion in our caving club, but we have a few problems, 
which i
 >> want to report to you, we also have made a little "brainstorming"...
 >
 >
 >
 > Thanks for your feedback. You are asking very difficult questions, 
but I will
 > try to answer...
 >
 >
 >> It is always very difficult to introduce new people, no software 
engineers,
 >> into therion, also i had great problems.
 >
 >
 >
 > You are right, but...
 >
 >> From time to time we get a crazy idea - that we will start 
programming much
 >
 > more simple therion again from the scratch. But when we start to 
analyze again all functionality that is definitely needed,
 > we are not able to find data model, that is much more simple
 > than current state.
 >
 >
 >> The map editor user interface gives
 >> many options, but thereby it is not really easy to handle, the same 
with the
 >> layout. It is difficult to produce a good looking plan-layout with 
text and
 >> so on.
 >
 >
 >
 > Well, I am afraid you will never get really good looking map with all 
bells and
 > whistles from therion. Our goal was to have a system, where we can have
 > complete, up to date and very flexible documentation of the cave. For 
this, we
 > are now paying price of good looking cave map. But if you have 
several tens of
 > km cave with multiple levels and passages that connects to each other 
- even
 > schematic map in therion is a pain, not a precisely drawn map with 
all the
 > details... At least in our situation, when we do not have a lot of free
 > time...
 >
 >
 >> A generall icon-interface, such as most leading CAD programmes use 
would be
 >> much more efficient in our opinion. Is this planed in final version?
 >
 >
 >
 > The main problem of therion user interface is, that it is not 
standard vector
 > drawing interface. Here I 100% agree. But I am afraid - I have no 
resources to
 > start working on another CADlike interface.
 >
 >> In Therion you draw something and you do not know what it will 
exactly  look like. For handling the Programm it would be easyer if you 
could  immediately see the result without pressing F9, opening the .pdf, 
take a look
 >> at the result, close it again (Windows) and return to therion.
 >> just an idea.
 >
 >
 >
 > On Windows it is a problem of acrobat reader - I usually use 
ghostscript, when
 > I
 > need check how it looks frequently. I have tried several times to control
 > Acrobat Reader from xtherion - but without success. I do not know, 
what is
 > going wrong - but from version to version, Adobe Acrobat Reader has 
different
 > behaviour when controled from other program.
 >
 > I would like to add some features to xtherion in this case (e.g. 
showing some
 > symbols instead of simple dots). But it is only in TODO.
 >
 >
 >> Also showing other scraps (.th2 files) in map editor, as with CAD 
for Cavers
 >> (Autocad) would be an option.
 >
 >
 >
 > Yes, it would be great. But I am afraid - with the current state of 
the code in
 > xtherion, this is not possible...
 >
 >
 >> To abstract we mean placing focus on usability would make it easyer 
for many
 >> people using therion, not only in our club.
 >
 >
 >
 > This would be great, but it implies very deep changes in the system 
design and
 > currently I have no resources to do that.
 > When I started therion - I was single and student. Now I am married, I am
 > working and I have three little children. I am really happy if I find 
time to
 > fix bugs, add little features or go to the cave
 >
 > Best regards, S.
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