General note and suggestions

Wookey wookey at aleph1.co.uk
Mon Jan 10 12:46:11 CET 2005


+++ Stacho Mudrak [05-01-10 09:28 +0100]:

>>> >It is very hard to tell that you have loaded the wrong thconfig file.
>>> >Some sensibe error like 'cannot find foo' would help.
>>> >e.g:
>>> >My data is in subdir 'bluemoon'
>>> >load thconfig from dir above (soundriver)
>>> >load bmb1.th2 from bluemoon dir
>>> >hit compile - gives 'error' but doesn't show what error.
>>> >run 'therion' in the bluemoon dir and things are fine (of course).
>
>>
>> This sounds strange. Therion is allways started from dir, at which
>> current thconfig file is located. You may not compile, unless some
>> config-file is loaded (or you can? I have to check).


Ah, OK. So I thought the problem was that it couldn't find file, but what
you are saying is that the .th2 files loaded is irrelevant, and doing
'compile' just runs wahtever the thconfig file says? Yes, at that time the
soundriver thconfig file probably did not build.

OK, so it works, and I revise my bug report to say we need to make clear
that 'compile' does whatever the thconfig file does, and _does_not_ compile
the file loaded in the map-editor (if it is not mentioned). This is a bit of
a problem if you loaded the wrong thconfig file (as I did above), but I'm
not sure what should be done about it. Maybe a warning about 'unused file in
map editor - is that what you wanted?'?

>> In any case, the compilation process needs to be changed. I am preparing
>> new arrangement, but it will take some time.


It does? I don't have a particular problem with it at the moment.

>>> >inserting line points happens _after_ the current point
>>> >inserting file entries happens _before_ the current line
>
>>
>> This I think is natural. If you draw something, it should overlap things
>> that were drawn previously. Example: firstly you draw rock-border and
>> than rock-edge.


I hadn't realised this was necessary. I agree it is natural to draw things
so that the last-drawn things covers those drawn before. I think it would
also be natural that the last thing in the file was drawn last, but it seems
that part is the other way round, so we write the file 'backwards' too.  :-)

It seems to me that this is exposing therion internals in the interface more
than is necessary. Presumably it could be done so that each new item went on
the end of the list and the items were rendered so that the last one ended
up 'on top'?

However this is perhaps a very large change in the internals with only a
small gain for users. I can live with it, but I do think it adds to the
things that make therion confusing to use.

But if we just explain about the ordering (especially for rocks - what else
does it affect?), that will be enough to let people use it.

>>> >inserting scrap happens at the start of the file
>>> >this is confusing.
>
>>
>> OK, I can change it that new scraps will be inserted before current scrap.


after  :-)

>>> >Check to tell you you are entering line outside a scrap would be good.
>
>>
>> OK, but I hate error windows, I have to click OK every time. Would a
>> beep be enought?


A beep and a message in the status area (where it says 'select object',
'drawing line', etc).

>>> >Splitting lines that are part of areas is tricky. Does label get removed
>
>> >from both halves of line?
>>
>> Yes. You need to copy the label and paste it into part of line you wish to.


In the long term I think therion should try to keep the label on the
'correct' half of the line - it should be able to determine that most of the
time, but I can see that this is tricky.

>>> >What is difference between floor-step and pit?
>
>>
>> I think, that pit is big floor-step, which can not be passed without
>> equipement (rope, ladder).


OK - but they look exactly the same in the UIS symbol set. I actually want
to use the 'border' type line for floor-step. I will have to try to
fine-tune my output,one thing I have not yet messed with.

>>> >After creating the first scrap the cursor is left at a position such that
>>> >if you enter any lines/points they end up outside a scrap.
>
>>
>> This should not be true in the newest version  :)  But I will check it.


I think you are right and this is fixed in 0.3.5

>> I usually use Edit->Insert->Area/Scrap. Alt-E+I+A on Windows. But I will
>>  add some shortcats.


I had not noticed that - I got used to esing entirely the right-hand pane
interface. That is easier.

>> OK, it is a lot of things, but some of them are easy to implement. I
>> will update TODO list and we will see.


Of course I am not expecting most of these to happen immediately  :-)

But it is important to record the things that annoy me, before I get used to
them and forget that they are a problem when starting out.

I'm very happy to provide feedback. Despite all my complaining, I think
therion is very good, or at least will be good one day when it is a bit more
finished.  :-)

The biggest problem at the moment is error feedback from
metafont-level problems, as disucussed with martinB. That is what keeps
getting me stuck so I have to ask for help.

Wookey
--
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work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/





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