[therion] Report on Therion Visit in Prague

Eric Madelaine madelain at nerim.fr
Sun Jul 11 16:04:26 CEST 2004

Thanks a lot, first, to Martin (Sluka), Stacho, and Erica for their
kindness, for taking me in charge in Praha and Hriby, and for everything they have arranged for this nice session.

We were able to have quite an efficient session, and plenty of interesting duscussion on therion present and future, on caving in general, on caves in the check ans slovak republics, in france or elsewhere, on environment, on cave management, on Prague history, on Europe, ....etc.

yesterday before leaving, I promissed to make a short report from my notes, so there it is, presented as a list of topics/questions, and when possible a sketch of answers...

- Therion not running properly on my W2000 Pro laptop (message "cannot read file data.log"...).
    => this was in fact a conflict with another installation of
    latex on the machine, that had set a bunch of latex variables.
    solution: unset all latex variables before running therion. May
    be this could be done in the therion script...
    => should go to the FAQ

- Extended elevation not working properly on the Pinée example.
    => Stacho suggested that this was a problem with the order of
    the station points in the map file. Indeed this order is
    significant. But it is not the only problem: Back home I have
    set the correct order, and the result is still not correct.
    Stacho, I will send you the files when I have a moment (too
    bad I had not them on my machine in Hriby); And I will try other
    (smaller) examples...

- A lot of problems with the definition of OUTLINES in the Pinée plan
    maps. I understand better the outline notion now, and I will
    spend some time correcting the Pinée exemple. I will definitely
    try to write some tutorial-like section about this topic.

- Split Line bug: when you split an existing line in the map editor,
    save the file and reload it, one half of the line disappears...
    => Stacho will have a look...

- Cross sections.
    various discusions, several questions:
    arrows (or marks) are not displayed by default; have to use
    e.g. "-direction begin"
    cross-section lines and scraps must be refered by a common id
    (or "name"). This will be useful to set references when the
    section scrap is far from the position of its reference line
    on the map. The labels naming the sections would be left to be
    user-defined (but maybe with a specific type, so that one can
    "hide" them together with the section lines/scraps).

- Possibility of translating a part of a map (a scrap?) for avoiding
    overlapping drawings in some cases. This I originaly asked
    for extended elevation, where it is most useful, but the
    mechanism would be the same for other sorts of projections.
    One difficulty is that one would want to specify where to draw
    connection lines between the two parts. This is NOT a map
    object, but rather something similar to "joins".

- Transparency for overlapping passages.
    This is currently handled using transparency and opacity at the
    PDF level. If one would want to draw the lower level wall using
    interupted lines (as in the UIS standard), it would have to be
    computed directly in therion, that would be too much work.
    => Abandonned.

- Tricks and Tips: How do you know which side of a line is the interior
    (e.g. for a pit...)? Stacho showed me that on the first point of
    the line there is a small (red ?) arrow, that I would not have
    seen without my glasses (;-). This is a new feature, not in the
    Book; very useful.

- Production of plans at very large scale (e.g. for inclusion in a
    topographic map). We need: (1) filling of the passage with
    colors, (2) specify a large scale bar and (3) a large north
    direction arrow.
    => (1) and (2) are feasible, e.g.:
        symbol-hide group all
        color map-fg [100 0 0]
        scale-bar 100 m
    Having several colors on the same plan (different for galeries
    and sumps, e.g.) does not seem possible.
    Having a bigger North arrow (for geo-referencing of the
    resulting map) should be done in Latex...

- Printing of grids on the plan: currently not available.

- New symbols:
    Ropes (for elevations)
    Meander in ceiling, in floor

- Drawing of centerlines, even when you don't have the corresponding
    scrap. I would find it very useful for a quick evening printing
    when you do not have enough time for more. Martin Sluka
    disagrees, because he always draws on scale in the cave
    (different habits...); but still you have to scan the scraps and
    edit the map...

Long discussions on 3D modelling that I will not try to summary (:-(

    and thanks again,


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