Extended profile problems
Hello everyone - I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years because it is such a pain to do in Therion. The time has come where I need to start adding them to several maps in progress. In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given them a viewpoint angle. The profile I am working on now will not work for that because it basically goes around in a circle. There is no viewpoint angle where the entire profile lays out in a line. The plan view is a loop. So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended". Holy cow, that makes a mess of things! Take a look at the attached file. This is so distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing! The stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle. The upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it should be. What am I missing??? Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch? How should I be drawing Maybe I should completely skip using elevations. I can probably make them work by drawing as cross-sections. Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto the final map. I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section scraps can be joined. -- Bill Gee
Bill, may you publish all your data? Or send it privately? Martin
6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:
Hello everyone -
I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years because it is such a pain to do in Therion. The time has come where I need to start adding them to several maps in progress.
In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given them a viewpoint angle. The profile I am working on now will not work for that because it basically goes around in a circle. There is no viewpoint angle where the entire profile lays out in a line. The plan view is a loop.
So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended". Holy cow, that makes a mess of things! Take a look at the attached file. This is so distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing! The stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle. The upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it should be.
What am I missing??? Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch? How should I be drawing
Maybe I should completely skip using elevations. I can probably make them work by drawing as cross-sections. Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto the final map. I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section scraps can be joined.
-- Bill Gee
<StarkCavernsElevations.pdf>_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi Martin - This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets! The attached ZIP file has the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project. -- Bill Gee On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
Bill,
may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?
Martin
6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:
Hello everyone -
I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years because it is such a pain to do in Therion. The time has come where I need to start adding them to several maps in progress.
In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given them a viewpoint angle. The profile I am working on now will not work for that because it basically goes around in a circle. There is no viewpoint angle where the entire profile lays out in a line. The plan view is a loop.
So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended". Holy cow, that makes a mess of things! Take a look at the attached file. This is so distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing! The stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle. The upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it should be.
What am I missing??? Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch? How should I be drawing
Maybe I should completely skip using elevations. I can probably make them work by drawing as cross-sections. Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto the final map. I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section scraps can be joined.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi Bill, Not sure to understand what you are trying to do. Are you trying to make the full extended profile of the cave ? In which .th2 is your profile drawing ? Phil
On 6 Sep 2019, at 16:09, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net> wrote:
Hi Martin -
This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets! The attached ZIP file has the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project.
-- Bill Gee
On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
Bill,
may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?
Martin
6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:
Hello everyone -
I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years because it is such a pain to do in Therion. The time has come where I need to start adding them to several maps in progress.
In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given them a viewpoint angle. The profile I am working on now will not work for that because it basically goes around in a circle. There is no viewpoint angle where the entire profile lays out in a line. The plan view is a loop.
So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended". Holy cow, that makes a mess of things! Take a look at the attached file. This is so distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing! The stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle. The upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it should be.
What am I missing??? Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch? How should I be drawing
Maybe I should completely skip using elevations. I can probably make them work by drawing as cross-sections. Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto the final map. I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section scraps can be joined.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
<StarkCavernsData.zip>_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion <https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion>
Hi Bill, it looks you have not defined „extend“ of centerline in your centerline data. Because extend right is default Therion will extend your stations form OC5a to the right, but it has to close the loop and there should be the problem. Your scrap extended Profile-OC5a-G10 includes stations OC5a to G10, stations OC5a-G are extended to East but stations C9 and C10 are extended to West. Try to divide that loop to two scraps from OC5a to G8 and G8 to G14 and add extend commands. Not use join commands for first elevation export. extend right OC5a G1 19.6 134 3.0 314 -3.0 1.0 9.8 18.7 3.5 G1 G2 20.4 133 29.0 313 -28.0 3.0 6.6 17.3 4.2 G2 G3 21.2 125 13.0 306 -13.0 2.3 3.0 9.3 6.4 G3 G4 22.6 60 4.0 239 -5.0 6.2 2.0 4.8 2.4 G4 G5 4.5 48 -10.0 228 10.0 2.6 1.7 1.2 0.3 G5 G6 12.3 101 18.0 281 -18.0 1.5 1.5 7.2 0.3 G6 G7 9.0 127 7.0 308 -7.0 7.3 16.2 5.1 2.0 G7 G8 10.9 44 -8.0 225 8.0 12.8 10.4 4.1 2.3 extend left G8 G9 8.5 335 -15.0 157 16.0 8.5 27.4 2.7 3.1 G9 G10 15.5 307 -1.0 128.5 1.0 3.4 3.9 0.7 0.8 G10 G11 32.0 267 -1.5 88.5 2.0 7.4 5.6 0.5 1.0 G11 G12 21.8 262 0.0 81 0.0 1.7 4.8 1.5 1.4 G12 G13 5.7 246 6.0 - -6.0 1.8 3.0 1.0 2.0 G13 G14 13.9 236 -61.0 57 62.0 - - - - extend hide G14 G1 5.9 - -32.0 220 32.0 - - - - flags splay G1 G1a 12.9 200 -6.0 - 6.0 20.0 20.0 17.3 4.2 G7 G7a 18.4 249 12.0 - -12.0 10.4 12.8 4.1 2.3 flags not splay Add command select to your thconfig file source StarkCaverns.th select StarkCavernsProfiles@StarkCavernsProfiles # Load the Metapost code for custom symbols and add to scrap G10-G14 (G8-G14) parameter -flip horizontal, because in output it should be flipped. Martin And after some editing:
6. 9. 2019 v 16:09, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:
Hi Martin -
This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets! The attached ZIP file has the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project.
-- Bill Gee
On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
Bill,
may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?
Martin
6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:
Hello everyone -
I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years because it is such a pain to do in Therion. The time has come where I need to start adding them to several maps in progress.
In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given them a viewpoint angle. The profile I am working on now will not work for that because it basically goes around in a circle. There is no viewpoint angle where the entire profile lays out in a line. The plan view is a loop.
So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended". Holy cow, that makes a mess of things! Take a look at the attached file. This is so distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing! The stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle. The upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it should be.
What am I missing??? Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch? How should I be drawing
Maybe I should completely skip using elevations. I can probably make them work by drawing as cross-sections. Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto the final map. I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section scraps can be joined.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
<StarkCavernsData.zip>_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi Martin - Thanks! This is much better, but still not what I want. I don't want the profile to fold back on itself at all. I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the right. Is that possible? If I draw them as "projection none", then two questions come up. First, if I put survey stations in the scrap will they be used to scale the drawing? Second, can two (or more) such scraps be joined? -- Bill Gee On Friday, September 6, 2019 10:26:52 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
Hi Bill,
it looks you have not defined „extend“ of centerline in your centerline data.
Because extend right is default Therion will extend your stations form OC5a to the right, but it has to close the loop and there should be the problem.
Your scrap extended Profile-OC5a-G10 includes stations OC5a to G10, stations OC5a-G are extended to East but stations C9 and C10 are extended to West.
Try to divide that loop to two scraps from OC5a to G8 and G8 to G14 and add extend commands. Not use join commands for first elevation export.
extend right OC5a G1 19.6 134 3.0 314 -3.0 1.0 9.8 18.7 3.5 G1 G2 20.4 133 29.0 313 -28.0 3.0 6.6 17.3 4.2 G2 G3 21.2 125 13.0 306 -13.0 2.3 3.0 9.3 6.4 G3 G4 22.6 60 4.0 239 -5.0 6.2 2.0 4.8 2.4 G4 G5 4.5 48 -10.0 228 10.0 2.6 1.7 1.2 0.3 G5 G6 12.3 101 18.0 281 -18.0 1.5 1.5 7.2 0.3 G6 G7 9.0 127 7.0 308 -7.0 7.3 16.2 5.1 2.0 G7 G8 10.9 44 -8.0 225 8.0 12.8 10.4 4.1 2.3 extend left G8 G9 8.5 335 -15.0 157 16.0 8.5 27.4 2.7 3.1 G9 G10 15.5 307 -1.0 128.5 1.0 3.4 3.9 0.7 0.8 G10 G11 32.0 267 -1.5 88.5 2.0 7.4 5.6 0.5 1.0 G11 G12 21.8 262 0.0 81 0.0 1.7 4.8 1.5 1.4 G12 G13 5.7 246 6.0 - -6.0 1.8 3.0 1.0 2.0 G13 G14 13.9 236 -61.0 57 62.0 - - - - extend hide G14 G1 5.9 - -32.0 220 32.0 - - - -
flags splay G1 G1a 12.9 200 -6.0 - 6.0 20.0 20.0 17.3 4.2 G7 G7a 18.4 249 12.0 - -12.0 10.4 12.8 4.1 2.3 flags not splay
Add command select to your thconfig file
source StarkCaverns.th
select StarkCavernsProfiles@StarkCavernsProfiles
# Load the Metapost code for custom symbols
and add to scrap G10-G14 (G8-G14) parameter -flip horizontal, because in output it should be flipped.
Hi Bill,
6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:
Thanks! This is much better, but still not what I want. I don't want the profile to fold back on itself at all. I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the right. Is that possible?
I’m not sure if this is possible without using another centreline file where the loop will be not closed. So for map you should have data with loops and for extended profile without loops.
If I draw them as "projection none", then two questions come up. First, if I put survey stations in the scrap will they be used to scale the drawing? Second, can two (or more) such scraps be joined?
I don’t know this is possible. Projection none is for sections only. Martin
Hi Martin - Hmmm.... That is exactly what I am looking for. I dislike taking out a survey shot. Maybe the thing to do is have a different centerline data file for generating this profile. Now that I know why the profile was so messed up, I can consider how to proceed. Thanks for all the advice and the samples. This part of the cave has an additional complication that I will eventually have to deal with. From station G8 there is another passage that goes down to the west. We have not yet surveyed that passage. Depicting its profile is going to be interesting! I will probably start a new profile sketch for it. -- Bill Gee On Saturday, September 7, 2019 3:21:30 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net>:
I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the right.
Just commented G14-G1, a bit shorted ends of scraps on station G10 and added join command.
Martin
I dislike taking out a survey shot. Maybe the thing to do is have a different centerline data file for generating this profile.
You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick. Better than removing data or duplicating it. This https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights. Bruce
8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz>:
I dislike taking out a survey shot. Maybe the thing to do is have a different centerline data file for generating this profile.
You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick. Better than removing data or duplicating it. This https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights. Bruce
I’m not sure it may have any effect. If there is shot the G14-G1 Therion will calculate with a loop. Martin
8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz>:
I dislike taking out a survey shot. Maybe the thing to do is have a different centerline data file for generating this profile.
You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick. Better than removing data or duplicating it. This https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights. Bruce
It does crazy things. Maybe if there will be added another parameter to command extend - something as „no-loop“. But I’m not sure how much modification of code it would require. Martin extend hide G14-G1 extend ignore G14-G1
It is never easy in my experience. Extend ignore will be the answer, if there is one. I tend to get the network shape correct first before trying to draw. There are some scrap statements that can then mess it up. Subtle variations in approach may make a big difference. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion Sent: Sunday, 8 September 2019 20:01 To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Cc: Martin Sluka <martinsluka@mac.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems
8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz>:
I dislike taking out a survey shot. Maybe the thing to do is have a different centerline data file for generating this profile.
You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick. Better than removing data or duplicating it. This https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights. Bruce
It does crazy things. Maybe if there will be added another parameter to command extend - something as „no-loop“. But I’m not sure how much modification of code it would require. Martin extend hide G14-G1
participants (4)
-
Bill Gee -
Bruce Mutton -
Martin Sluka -
Philippe Vernant