OK, here is a little experiment that illustrates the symbol alignment problem, just to prove to myself that there is a problem. I found that my custom entrance symbol does not always plot correctly, but neither do the default Therion symbols. Each scrap contains nine stations, named for the alignment of the coincident point symbols. Each station has a coincident water-flow, flowstone-choke and entrance symbol. There are short bits of passage shown to help with visual orientation. The variables include: * Relative orientation of the scrap drawing compared to north or output orientation (not really explored here, I have taken the simple case of scrap orientation 'up' matches 'north'. I don't believe I have ever noticed any problems associated with scrap drawing orientation - just remember that symbol -align option is relative to the scrap drawing as viewed on your monitor, which in this example is north). * Symbol alignment (c, l, r, tl, t etc) * Symbol orientation ( 000 to 359, although I only explore 000 and 210 here) * Layout rotation ( 000 to 359, although I only explore 000 and 285 here) * Therion default symbols, and symbols I have customised a little I think what the attached show for the three default Therion symbols I have chosen is: * Symbol alignments and layout rotation symbol behaviour is OK where symbol orientations are set to zero (and I assume this is the case where orientations are undefined). * Symbol orientations and layout rotation symbol behaviour is OK, but alignments are the reverse of what they should be where symbol orientations are set to 210 (degrees). ie non-zero symbol orientations always break symbol alignment (although I expect that where orientation is within some other quadrant this may not be the case). I am sure there are some Therion symbols that behave properly (I think labels do), I just did not stumble on them in this experiment. My custom entrance symbol introduces other problems, but that is an issue of my own making, and so not of particular concern. It does suggest there is something that requires fixing, and that a 'Therion symbol design guide' might eventually help people not fall into these traps. Bruce PS: If you want to remove any customisations likely to affect the output from the attached zipped project, in the file LayoutMapThisCave.thc comment out the lines: # copy LayoutColourSymbols # copy LayoutStandard # copy AMERCustomSymbols