How to do better join from scraps in different .th2 files?
I have to join scraps in different .th2 files. The semi-automatic join doesn’t do a good job. I need to redraw the scraps wall near the join to do a better work. Can I insert in the Xtherion map editor a scrap from another .th2 file in the background to do a better position of the scrap walls to can produce better scraps joins? Evaristo Quiroga
Maybe better is to open Xtherion two or several times and to be able to see both scraps side by side. Take care to save them before compilation. m.s. On Oct 03, 2017, at 02:08 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote: I have to join scraps in different .th2 files. The semi-automatic join doesn’t do a good job. I need to redraw the scraps wall near the join to do a better work. Can I insert in the Xtherion map editor a scrap from another .th2 file in the background to do a better position of the scrap walls to can produce better scraps joins? Evaristo Quiroga _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Evaristo It is a trial and error process. I always try to get the scraps very close to joining before I activate a join statement. I do this by opening the exported pdf, and both th2 files, then iteratively editing and compiling until they are close to perfect. Like Martin has suggested. Then I create a join statement to make it really perfect. As you have noticed, join will do a poor job, and mask subtleties of your linework and point placement unless they are pretty good to start with. Join is especially bad if the wall or other lines to be joined overlap each other (in their unjoined state). ie if you want to do a quick job, a gap is better than an overlap. Bruce From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Evaristo Quiroga via Therion Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2017 1:08 AM To: Philippe Vernant via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> Cc: Evaristo Quiroga <eqr@ecgracia.com> Subject: [Therion] How to do better join from scraps in different .th2 files? I have to join scraps in different .th2 files. The semi-automatic join doesn’t do a good job. I need to redraw the scraps wall near the join to do a better work. Can I insert in the Xtherion map editor a scrap from another .th2 file in the background to do a better position of the scrap walls to can produce better scraps joins? Evaristo Quiroga
Hi, Evaristo! Glad to see you here. In addition to Martin and Bruce suggestions, you can use a background picture, as template to place join points. Simply place same background picture to both scraps and place your join points according to background. Previously generated incorrect pdf can also serve as 'iteration 0' background of trial and error process. Sometimes .xvi-file regular grid with same cell size for both scraps can be used as join-helper. You look onto center-line, locate position of your join points relatively to center-line (certain station point) and grid etc.
Hi Nikita, Nice to see you here too. How do you insert the pdf in the background? The files supported are only: png, jpeg, gif, pnm, ppm and xvi. I have convert a example pdf to png in Photoshop, but I have to correct the scale and ppi to can put correctly in the background. El 03/10/2017 a las 22:14, Nikita Kozlov via Therion escribió:
Hi, Evaristo!
Glad to see you here.
In addition to Martin and Bruce suggestions, you can use a background picture, as template to place join points. Simply place same background picture to both scraps and place your join points according to background.
Previously generated incorrect pdf can also serve as 'iteration 0' background of trial and error process.
Sometimes .xvi-file regular grid with same cell size for both scraps can be used as join-helper. You look onto center-line, locate position of your join points relatively to center-line (certain station point) and grid etc.
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You may do it in Photoshop too. Open both images, copy converted pdf over original image to second layer, change trasparency, select it and change size of second layer. Then set transparency too 100 %, delete first layer and save. A bit tricky and time consumable. m s Odesláno z iPhonu 3. 10. 2017 v 23:42, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>:
Hi Nikita,
Nice to see you here too.
How do you insert the pdf in the background? The files supported are only: png, jpeg, gif, pnm, ppm and xvi.
I have convert a example pdf to png in Photoshop, but I have to correct the scale and ppi to can put correctly in the background.
El 03/10/2017 a las 22:14, Nikita Kozlov via Therion escribió: Hi, Evaristo!
Glad to see you here.
In addition to Martin and Bruce suggestions, you can use a background picture, as template to place join points. Simply place same background picture to both scraps and place your join points according to background.
Previously generated incorrect pdf can also serve as 'iteration 0' background of trial and error process.
Sometimes .xvi-file regular grid with same cell size for both scraps can be used as join-helper. You look onto center-line, locate position of your join points relatively to center-line (certain station point) and grid etc.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
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There is a little trick with scale and ppi. Assuming xvi-file scale is 1:100 and ppi is something like default 72. To place generated from photoshop raster, with default ppi 300, and map scale of 1:100 yo do not have to apply scaling on raster, but rather specify it as a parameter to scale xvi appropriately to your raster, i.e place a command like this to .thconfig export map -fmt xvi \ -proj plan \ -layout-scale 3 200 \ -o bottom_plan.xvi Then your xvi will match your raster by scale. Also I suggest using smaller in byte size raster file formats like jpeg and do not use png with transparency as background images, because XTherion has troubles with such kind of png-s.
Anyway, use in export layout "debug on“ first to see where is the problem! ms
3. 10. 2017 v 23:42, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk>:
Hi Nikita,
Nice to see you here too.
How do you insert the pdf in the background? The files supported are only: png, jpeg, gif, pnm, ppm and xvi.
I have convert a example pdf to png in Photoshop, but I have to correct the scale and ppi to can put correctly in the background.
El 03/10/2017 a las 22:14, Nikita Kozlov via Therion escribió:
Hi, Evaristo!
Glad to see you here.
In addition to Martin and Bruce suggestions, you can use a background picture, as template to place join points. Simply place same background picture to both scraps and place your join points according to background.
Previously generated incorrect pdf can also serve as 'iteration 0' background of trial and error process.
Sometimes .xvi-file regular grid with same cell size for both scraps can be used as join-helper. You look onto center-line, locate position of your join points relatively to center-line (certain station point) and grid etc.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion <https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion>
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Hi, Thanks to everyone for the tips. Now I understand better how join scraps in different files. After putting all your comments in the shaker, I developed the following HOWTO. 1. I paperless survey with Topodroid. 2. Export the survey to Therion (th and th2). This the origin of the problem: Topodroid export the scraps in individual files. 3. Modify the individual .th files to select the plan and maps, and make a new index .th, that input to the individual survey and maps. 4. Export a map in pdf format with scale *1:119.* 5. Open the pdf in Photoshop, and save directly in GIF. 6. Now I can open the GIF in background in the Xtherion map editor. The scale is perfect, I only have to move the image. 7. I can open two Xtherion for the two scraps to join. I modify easily the objects in the scraps with the image reference for a better join. 8. I export a map in pdf to look the result. 9. When I am satisfied with the result, I put a join command in the index.th to do an semi-automatic join. The result is perfect. I don’t know because I have to use the 1:119 scale, but It’s okay for all my surveys with Topodroid. I think Topodroid export the scraps with 1:100 scale. The number is in correlation with the screens 72 dpi, 100 dpi Xtherion insert image, the 1:100 scraps scale and other parameter I don’t understand. Evaristo Quiroga El 03/10/2017 a las 14:08, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion escribió:
I have to join scraps in different .th2 files. The semi-automatic join doesn’t do a good job. I need to redraw the scraps wall near the join to do a better work.
Can I insert in the Xtherion map editor a scrap from another .th2 file in the background to do a better position of the scrap walls to can produce better scraps joins?
Evaristo Quiroga
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi, Another approach is to copy&paste the two scraps in a new .th2 file. But now I have the two scraps in the same new file but there are displaced to the same origen in Xtherion map editor. Is it possible to move entirely a scraps to another position in the Xterion map editor , like we move the background image? Thanks, Evaristo Quiroga
I'm afraid it is not possible. Each .th2 file has its own coordinate system. There is a way around - to change all coordinates with help of Excel, let's say. Isn't enough to check join of two scraps by "debug on" and correct it manually? ms On Oct 04, 2017, at 06:03 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote: Hi, Another approach is to copy&paste the two scraps in a new .th2 file. But now I have the two scraps in the same new file but there are displaced to the same origen in Xtherion map editor. Is it possible to move entirely a scraps to another position in the Xterion map editor , like we move the background image? Thanks, Evaristo Quiroga _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi Marcus, I don't know if this enough to check manually. I am a beginner in Therion and Topodroid, and I want to analyse all the possibilities and workflows, before to start to do serious survey works. I plan to pass to Therion all the surveys from a cave system with 50 km of development and 1349 meters depth, surveyed in the last 45 years at 1:500. Thanks, Evaristo Quiroga. El 04/10/2017 a las 19:03, Martin Sluka via Therion escribió:
I'm afraid it is not possible. Each .th2 file has its own coordinate system.
There is a way around - to change all coordinates with help of Excel, let's say.
Isn't enough to check join of two scraps by "debug on" and correct it manually?
ms
On Oct 04, 2017, at 06:03 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Hi,
Another approach is to copy&paste the two scraps in a new .th2 file.
But now I have the two scraps in the same new file but there are displaced to the same origen in Xtherion map editor.
Is it possible to move entirely a scraps to another position in the Xterion map editor , like we move the background image?
Thanks,
Evaristo Quiroga
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
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Have you tried for Android application Qave? ms On Oct 04, 2017, at 07:36 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote: Hi Marcus, I don't know if this enough to check manually. I am a beginner in Therion and Topodroid, and I want to analyse all the possibilities and workflows, before to start to do serious survey works. I plan to pass to Therion all the surveys from a cave system with 50 km of development and 1349 meters depth, surveyed in the last 45 years at 1:500. Thanks, Evaristo Quiroga. El 04/10/2017 a las 19:03, Martin Sluka via Therion escribió: I'm afraid it is not possible. Each .th2 file has its own coordinate system. There is a way around - to change all coordinates with help of Excel, let's say. Isn't enough to check join of two scraps by "debug on" and correct it manually? ms On Oct 04, 2017, at 06:03 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote: Hi, Another approach is to copy&paste the two scraps in a new .th2 file. But now I have the two scraps in the same new file but there are displaced to the same origen in Xtherion map editor. Is it possible to move entirely a scraps to another position in the Xterion map editor , like we move the background image? Thanks, Evaristo Quiroga _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Thanks Marcus, I don't know the Qave application. I will take a look. Evaristo. El 04/10/2017 a las 19:48, Martin Sluka via Therion escribió:
Have you tried for Android application Qave?
ms
On Oct 04, 2017, at 07:36 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Hi Marcus,
I don't know if this enough to check manually.
I am a beginner in Therion and Topodroid, and I want to analyse all the possibilities and workflows, before to start to do serious survey works. I plan to pass to Therion all the surveys from a cave system with 50 km of development and 1349 meters depth, surveyed in the last 45 years at 1:500.
Thanks,
Evaristo Quiroga.
El 04/10/2017 a las 19:03, Martin Sluka via Therion escribió:
I'm afraid it is not possible. Each .th2 file has its own coordinate system.
There is a way around - to change all coordinates with help of Excel, let's say.
Isn't enough to check join of two scraps by "debug on" and correct it manually?
ms
On Oct 04, 2017, at 06:03 PM, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Hi,
Another approach is to copy&paste the two scraps in a new .th2 file.
But now I have the two scraps in the same new file but there are displaced to the same origen in Xtherion map editor.
Is it possible to move entirely a scraps to another position in the Xterion map editor , like we move the background image?
Thanks,
Evaristo Quiroga
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
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participants (4)
-
Bruce Mutton -
Evaristo Quiroga -
Martin Sluka -
Nikita Kozlov