Hi all In the Therion book is written: "All data are relative to survey station positions. If the coordinates of survey stations are changed in the process of loop closure, then all relevant data is moved correspondingly, so the map is always up-to-date." I have a complete cave survey with a .th and .th2 file. First one contains all surveystations with LRUD messurements. After compiling I got a .xvi file to input into the mapeditor for drawing wall etc. The .th2 file contains all scraps with walls, stations, areas and so on. Now I added a sidetunnel. But due to deviation in the messurements the sidetunnel is not connected to the maintunnel at the startpoint AND endpoint. Of course the maintunnel would not be that accurate as well. I wanted to close the loop and get the 'average error' of both messurements. So I used 'equate' for the first and last point of the sidetunnel to connect it to the maintunnel. I got the loop closure with slightly different stations beyond the first connection as I expected. But only for the .xvi file. All walls, stations from the .th2 file are still in place as before the loop closure. For example the drwan stations from the .th2 file are no longer corresponding to the stations from the .xvi file. This is not as expected because as written in the Therion-book (see above) I expected the drawn stations, wall etc. to be corrected or let's say 'deferred' as well corresponding to the loop-closure-deviation. In the therion.ini file I alreadey changed to "loop-closure therion". But this didn't change anything. Hopefully it's clear what my problem is!? So what I'm doing wrong? Can anybody give me a hint how to do it the right way and get the drawings (stations, walls etc.) in the right position after a loop closure as well? I didn't find any hint to that in the wiki or mailarchive. If more information is needed please let me know. Cheers, Torsten
On Jan 4, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Torsten Schnitter <torsten.schnitter@netcologne.de> wrote:
Hopefully it's clear what my problem is!? So what I'm doing wrong?
Doesn't matter, the exported map will have all parts of your .th2 draw on right places. There is a difference between xvi file - it is always exported from current centreline data - and th2 file which is manually drew according a sketch or xvi file. If you drew the th2 file on the basis of xvi file and you change the centreline data after and you generate new xvi with the same name, your th2 file will load the new xvi image but it was generated with all changes coming from changed centreline. The best way is to preserve xvi file with original data on which the original drawing was based. You may compare both xvi files (second one with different name) by visibility switch in scrap panel. But if you generate map based on new data set (with joins] it will include all changes (after loop closure) like the new xvi file. You may generate the map with layout parameter "debug on" to see your map before morfing and after morfing. m.s.
Hi Martin Thanks for you answer. Asume following: There is a cave with a long tunnel already surveyed. All the drawings are done so far and you get a nice map. But the cave is not at it's end at all. Now you find a new sidepassage somewhere in the middle of the already surveyed cave connecting back to the maintunnel before the known end. Now you make a loop closure and get slightly different positions for all stations after the first connection of the sidetunnel. OK, for changing the "old" drawings of walls etc I keep the original .xvi file. 1st question: How do you draw the walls from this new sidetunnel and connect it correctly to the existing drawings? Do you work with the old .xvi or the new .xvi file? Do you use a new scrap and work with joins for the wall drawings? 2nd question: Now you do more survey at the end of the cave. In your .th2 file the old walls at there old positions. But with this loop closure from above the last station of the .xvi (first of the new survey) is in a different position. Do you use the new .xvi file and draw the new walls in a new scrap and then connect them with joins to the old survey? Thanks a lot for all you help. Cheers, Torsten Martin Sluka <martinsluka@mac.com> hat am 4. Januar 2013 um 18:06 geschrieben:
On Jan 4, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Torsten Schnitter <torsten.schnitter@netcologne.de> wrote:
Hopefully it's clear what my problem is!? So what I'm doing wrong?
Doesn't matter, the exported map will have all parts of your .th2 draw on right places.
There is a difference between xvi file - it is always exported from current centreline data - and th2 file which is manually drew according a sketch or xvi file. If you drew the th2 file on the basis of xvi file and you change the centreline data after and you generate new xvi with the same name, your th2 file will load the new xvi image but it was generated with all changes coming from changed centreline. The best way is to preserve xvi file with original data on which the original drawing was based. You may compare both xvi files (second one with different name) by visibility switch in scrap panel.
But if you generate map based on new data set (with joins] it will include all changes (after loop closure) like the new xvi file. You may generate the map with layout parameter "debug on" to see your map before morfing and after morfing.
m.s. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
On Jan 6, 2013, at 7:26 PM, Torsten Schnitter <torsten.schnitter@netcologne.de> wrote:
Do you use the new .xvi file and draw the new walls in a new scrap and then connect them with joins to the old survey?
The ansver for both question is the same: Make small scraps. As I wrote as rosary. The order you will draw your scraps isn't important. Use joins. There is no reason take care for new or old xvi files, just preserve that one you use to draw particular scrap. Avoid to join three scraps. Better is "to steal" piece of other scrap(s) and make two simple connections. m.s.
Torsten To phrase it differently to Martin, I think of it this way... xvi files are outputs, generated by Therion, so they will change according to changes in the survey network data, loop closures etc. th2 files are inputs, created by the draughtsperson using Xtherion or using a text editor. Even though the th2 file may reference xvi files, the th2 file is never changed by therion, so th2 files are never affected by subsequent changes to the survey network. There are probably many work flows, but the one I use assumes a constantly evolving survey network. Each survey trip has its own .th file(s), xvi file(s) and .th2 file(s). Each one is uniquely named and is never substantially changed, even though subsequent discoveries and surveys will alter the shape of the survey network and sometimes the drawing local to some survey stations. Of course if a new passage is discovered branching off a previously surveyed passage, then the old th2 file will require a minor edit to create a gap in the walls to accommodate the new passage. Otherwise, the new survey and drawings are entirely described in a new set of files. As an example my current project has about 120 sets of files for about 20km of survey length. -----Original Message----- ...
1st question: How do you draw the walls from this new sidetunnel and connect it correctly to the existing drawings? Do you work with the old .xvi or the new .xvi file? Do you use a new scrap and work with joins for the wall drawings?
To edit the old passage detail you will use the old th2 file, and it will naturally already reference the old xvi file (not that it matters, as you will look at the pdf output to see how the old and new match up, before invoking a scrap join statement). To draw the new passage you should create a new th2 file, and this will reference the new xvi file (for the new passage only).
2nd question: Now you do more survey at the end of the cave. In your .th2 file the old walls at there old positions. Not relevant. The walls will generally still be in the same position relative to the survey station. Therions basic functionality sorts out the morphing of the drawings to match the adjusted survey network.
But with this loop closure from above the last station of the .xvi (first of the new survey) is in a different position. Do you use the new .xvi file and draw the new walls in a new scrap and then connect them with joins to the old survey?
Yes, each corresponding survey, xvi and drawing go together. If you draw carefully, you may not need to use join statements, although if there are significant loop misclosures then joins are a good idea. Bruce
participants (3)
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Bruce -
Martin Sluka -
Torsten Schnitter