XTherion background image control and bitmap file size question
Mōrena I am wondering if XTherion can scale background images, or if anyone has hints on scanned image settings that generate a larger background image, that is economical on bytes? Back story: I created a multi-level survey (shaft system in cave) with PocketTopo, rather than creating many small survey files to keep each level separate. At home I printed the PocketTopo bitmap, then sketched over three of the four main levels that I now want to draw with Therion. Then I created an xvi with TopParser (I chose my usual export settings, and of course maybe I could have chosen better settings). You can see the xvi and some drawing directly on that xvi in the image below. You can also see the three 100 dpi png background images that I imported into XTherion. The three images are much smaller than the xvi and while it so happens the zoom range is such in XTherion that I could easily draw my scraps over them, I would like all four scrap background to be a similar size. It just makes life easier into the future that way. I am a novice when it comes to bitmap manipulation, but I managed to use GIMP to scale up one of the images about 3.5 times. You can also see that in the image below. It is about the same size as the xvi which is what I am after My frustration is that the original png images are all about 600 kB and the enlarged image is about 3000 kB. I am a miser and I would like to minimise bloat in my project repository. Can we scale the image in XTherion, using the original smaller file as the permanent source? Or are there tricks to enlarging the png image while maintaining a modest file size? I am aware that jpg will likely compress to fewer bytes, and will try that unless it becomes too blurry. It looks like XTherion th2 file header has some unused controls. I could not find any documentation on this, so I have deduced the format as follows… ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {x coord visibility[0=off, 1=on] gamma} {y coord {<unknown empty variable>}} filename and path <unknown 0 variable> {< unknown empty variable >} Maybe there is scope for scaling and rotation of images by XTherion in here? !! Sample of th2 file header ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1386.4418110200002 1 1.0} {844.5244881899999 7.14} ptopo/7-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1893.842519685 1 1.0} {1306.5748031498001 7.19} ptopo/9-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1278.0 1 1.0} {585.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {550.0 1 1.0} {589.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg02of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {6.0 1 1.0} {583.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg03of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {2568.0 0 0.7943282347242815} {1891.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03B.png 0 {} Thanks for any insights. Regards Bruce
Hi Bruce, I don't think there's an option. I had a similar case where I had an old paper-based map that my map connected to. I ended up scaling and rotating the background image of the old map until it was right. I used the maximum jpg compression to reduce the size of the enlarged image, but it would be useful to have size/rotation options for background images. A similar case is placing images on a generated PDF map. I can't see a way to size/rotate these, but this would be really useful. Thanks, Paul On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 08:14, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:
Mōrena
I am wondering if XTherion can scale background images, or if anyone has hints on scanned image settings that generate a larger background image, that is economical on bytes?
Back story:
I created a multi-level survey (shaft system in cave) with PocketTopo, rather than creating many small survey files to keep each level separate.
At home I printed the PocketTopo bitmap, then sketched over three of the four main levels that I now want to draw with Therion.
Then I created an xvi with TopParser (I chose my usual export settings, and of course maybe I could have chosen better settings).
You can see the xvi and some drawing directly on that xvi in the image below.
You can also see the three 100 dpi png background images that I imported into XTherion.
The three images are much smaller than the xvi and while it so happens the zoom range is such in XTherion that I could easily draw my scraps over them, I would like all four scrap background to be a similar size. It just makes life easier into the future that way.
I am a novice when it comes to bitmap manipulation, but I managed to use GIMP to scale up one of the images about 3.5 times. You can also see that in the image below. It is about the same size as the xvi which is what I am after
My frustration is that the original png images are all about 600 kB and the enlarged image is about 3000 kB. I am a miser and I would like to minimise bloat in my project repository.
Can we scale the image in XTherion, using the original smaller file as the permanent source?
Or are there tricks to enlarging the png image while maintaining a modest file size?
I am aware that jpg will likely compress to fewer bytes, and will try that unless it becomes too blurry.
It looks like XTherion th2 file header has some unused controls. I could not find any documentation on this, so I have deduced the format as follows…
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {x coord visibility[0=off, 1=on] gamma} {y coord {<unknown empty variable>}} filename and path <unknown 0 variable> {< unknown empty variable >}
Maybe there is scope for scaling and rotation of images by XTherion in here? !!
Sample of th2 file header
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1386.4418110200002 1 1.0} {844.5244881899999 7.14} ptopo/7-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1893.842519685 1 1.0} {1306.5748031498001 7.19} ptopo/9-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1278.0 1 1.0} {585.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03.png 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {550.0 1 1.0} {589.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg02of03.png 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {6.0 1 1.0} {583.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg03of03.png 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {2568.0 0 0.7943282347242815} {1891.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03B.png 0 {}
Thanks for any insights.
Regards
Bruce
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Hi Bruce, I have had reason to digitise some 2 point plan sketches and then stitch them together, I know it wouldn’t be ideal, but could you build up the picture like this in a sub folder then export a new .th2 for the full area of the cave that you need, so life is easier in the future. Ie separate scraps for each background image, then when the .th2 has been exported, you can manipulate the scraps to your desired parts of the cave? Al Ps loving getting back to being underground again :)
On 6 May 2021, at 22:07, Paul Rowe <armchair.caver.nz@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce, I don't think there's an option. I had a similar case where I had an old paper-based map that my map connected to. I ended up scaling and rotating the background image of the old map until it was right. I used the maximum jpg compression to reduce the size of the enlarged image, but it would be useful to have size/rotation options for background images.
A similar case is placing images on a generated PDF map. I can't see a way to size/rotate these, but this would be really useful.
Thanks, Paul
On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 08:14, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote: Mōrena
I am wondering if XTherion can scale background images, or if anyone has hints on scanned image settings that generate a larger background image, that is economical on bytes?
Back story:
I created a multi-level survey (shaft system in cave) with PocketTopo, rather than creating many small survey files to keep each level separate.
At home I printed the PocketTopo bitmap, then sketched over three of the four main levels that I now want to draw with Therion.
Then I created an xvi with TopParser (I chose my usual export settings, and of course maybe I could have chosen better settings).
You can see the xvi and some drawing directly on that xvi in the image below.
You can also see the three 100 dpi png background images that I imported into XTherion.
The three images are much smaller than the xvi and while it so happens the zoom range is such in XTherion that I could easily draw my scraps over them, I would like all four scrap background to be a similar size. It just makes life easier into the future that way.
I am a novice when it comes to bitmap manipulation, but I managed to use GIMP to scale up one of the images about 3.5 times. You can also see that in the image below. It is about the same size as the xvi which is what I am after
My frustration is that the original png images are all about 600 kB and the enlarged image is about 3000 kB. I am a miser and I would like to minimise bloat in my project repository.
Can we scale the image in XTherion, using the original smaller file as the permanent source?
Or are there tricks to enlarging the png image while maintaining a modest file size?
I am aware that jpg will likely compress to fewer bytes, and will try that unless it becomes too blurry.
<image004.png>
It looks like XTherion th2 file header has some unused controls. I could not find any documentation on this, so I have deduced the format as follows…
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {x coord visibility[0=off, 1=on] gamma} {y coord {<unknown empty variable>}} filename and path <unknown 0 variable> {< unknown empty variable >}
Maybe there is scope for scaling and rotation of images by XTherion in here? !!
Sample of th2 file header
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1386.4418110200002 1 1.0} {844.5244881899999 7.14} ptopo/7-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1893.842519685 1 1.0} {1306.5748031498001 7.19} ptopo/9-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1278.0 1 1.0} {585.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03.png 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {550.0 1 1.0} {589.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg02of03.png 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {6.0 1 1.0} {583.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg03of03.png 0 {}
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {2568.0 0 0.7943282347242815} {1891.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03B.png 0 {}
Thanks for any insights.
Regards
Bruce
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Thanks for your replies Paul, Alastair and Axel, I was hoping to draw out discussion on basic image manipulation functions in XTherion and maybe to inspire someone to work on developing those. Maybe I have been successful but it is far too soon to tell. Paul, yes, scale and rotation control both for XTherion background images and exported map-images would be great. Alistair, Paul, my reason for wanting similar sized (scales) images in my th2 file was not so much to join them for the purposes of contiguous scrap drawing, but to avoid the need to zoom in or out when moving from one scrap to another. It also allows copying (with a text editor) drawing objects, then using Xtherion to move one of them from one scrap to another – useful for coincident lines on adjacent scrap boundaries and other things. Most of the time I avoid joining up background images, as for me Therion’s superpower is allowing the user to work on small easily manageable bits of information, then joining them up at compilation time. Axel. Yes, the Inkscape Plugin. I was excited about this when Thomas first posted it. I managed to parse a th2 file to InkScape, but then I was so lost that I got no further. Could not parse the th2 file back out to Therion, so I gave up at that point. I recognise the potential, but I am lacking knowledge and experience in the basics of image manipulation software. Maybe one day I will learn how to use Inkscape, Illustrator, GIMP, CoralDraw etc… I managed to enlarge my png image 3.5 x while reducing it from 600 kB to 500 kB using more or less default export settings in GIMP), so my miserly tendencies are satiated for now. I am working on my next question now… Bruce From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton Sent: Friday, 7 May 2021 08:14 To: 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] XTherion background image control and bitmap file size question Mōrena I am wondering if XTherion can scale background images, or if anyone has hints on scanned image settings that generate a larger background image, that is economical on bytes? Back story: I created a multi-level survey (shaft system in cave) with PocketTopo, rather than creating many small survey files to keep each level separate. At home I printed the PocketTopo bitmap, then sketched over three of the four main levels that I now want to draw with Therion. Then I created an xvi with TopParser (I chose my usual export settings, and of course maybe I could have chosen better settings). You can see the xvi and some drawing directly on that xvi in the image below. You can also see the three 100 dpi png background images that I imported into XTherion. The three images are much smaller than the xvi and while it so happens the zoom range is such in XTherion that I could easily draw my scraps over them, I would like all four scrap background to be a similar size. It just makes life easier into the future that way. I am a novice when it comes to bitmap manipulation, but I managed to use GIMP to scale up one of the images about 3.5 times. You can also see that in the image below. It is about the same size as the xvi which is what I am after My frustration is that the original png images are all about 600 kB and the enlarged image is about 3000 kB. I am a miser and I would like to minimise bloat in my project repository. Can we scale the image in XTherion, using the original smaller file as the permanent source? Or are there tricks to enlarging the png image while maintaining a modest file size? I am aware that jpg will likely compress to fewer bytes, and will try that unless it becomes too blurry. It looks like XTherion th2 file header has some unused controls. I could not find any documentation on this, so I have deduced the format as follows… ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {x coord visibility[0=off, 1=on] gamma} {y coord {<unknown empty variable>}} filename and path <unknown 0 variable> {< unknown empty variable >} Maybe there is scope for scaling and rotation of images by XTherion in here? !! Sample of th2 file header ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1386.4418110200002 1 1.0} {844.5244881899999 7.14} ptopo/7-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1893.842519685 1 1.0} {1306.5748031498001 7.19} ptopo/9-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1278.0 1 1.0} {585.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {550.0 1 1.0} {589.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg02of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {6.0 1 1.0} {583.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg03of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {2568.0 0 0.7943282347242815} {1891.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03B.png 0 {} Thanks for any insights. Regards Bruce
Have you tried export of background sketches from therion as .xvi? Martin Odesláno z iPhonu 12. 5. 2021 v 22:36, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz>:
Thanks for your replies Paul, Alastair and Axel, I was hoping to draw out discussion on basic image manipulation functions in XTherion and maybe to inspire someone to work on developing those. Maybe I have been successful but it is far too soon to tell.
Paul, yes, scale and rotation control both for XTherion background images and exported map-images would be great.
Alistair, Paul, my reason for wanting similar sized (scales) images in my th2 file was not so much to join them for the purposes of contiguous scrap drawing, but to avoid the need to zoom in or out when moving from one scrap to another. It also allows copying (with a text editor) drawing objects, then using Xtherion to move one of them from one scrap to another – useful for coincident lines on adjacent scrap boundaries and other things. Most of the time I avoid joining up background images, as for me Therion’s superpower is allowing the user to work on small easily manageable bits of information, then joining them up at compilation time.
Axel. Yes, the Inkscape Plugin. I was excited about this when Thomas first posted it. I managed to parse a th2 file to InkScape, but then I was so lost that I got no further. Could not parse the th2 file back out to Therion, so I gave up at that point. I recognise the potential, but I am lacking knowledge and experience in the basics of image manipulation software. Maybe one day I will learn how to use Inkscape, Illustrator, GIMP, CoralDraw etc…
I managed to enlarge my png image 3.5 x while reducing it from 600 kB to 500 kB using more or less default export settings in GIMP), so my miserly tendencies are satiated for now. I am working on my next question now…
Bruce
From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton Sent: Friday, 7 May 2021 08:14 To: 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] XTherion background image control and bitmap file size question
Mōrena I am wondering if XTherion can scale background images, or if anyone has hints on scanned image settings that generate a larger background image, that is economical on bytes?
Back story: I created a multi-level survey (shaft system in cave) with PocketTopo, rather than creating many small survey files to keep each level separate. At home I printed the PocketTopo bitmap, then sketched over three of the four main levels that I now want to draw with Therion. Then I created an xvi with TopParser (I chose my usual export settings, and of course maybe I could have chosen better settings).
You can see the xvi and some drawing directly on that xvi in the image below. You can also see the three 100 dpi png background images that I imported into XTherion. The three images are much smaller than the xvi and while it so happens the zoom range is such in XTherion that I could easily draw my scraps over them, I would like all four scrap background to be a similar size. It just makes life easier into the future that way. I am a novice when it comes to bitmap manipulation, but I managed to use GIMP to scale up one of the images about 3.5 times. You can also see that in the image below. It is about the same size as the xvi which is what I am after
My frustration is that the original png images are all about 600 kB and the enlarged image is about 3000 kB. I am a miser and I would like to minimise bloat in my project repository.
Can we scale the image in XTherion, using the original smaller file as the permanent source? Or are there tricks to enlarging the png image while maintaining a modest file size? I am aware that jpg will likely compress to fewer bytes, and will try that unless it becomes too blurry.
<image005.png> <image006.png>
It looks like XTherion th2 file header has some unused controls. I could not find any documentation on this, so I have deduced the format as follows…
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {x coord visibility[0=off, 1=on] gamma} {y coord {<unknown empty variable>}} filename and path <unknown 0 variable> {< unknown empty variable >}
Maybe there is scope for scaling and rotation of images by XTherion in here? !!
Sample of th2 file header
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1386.4418110200002 1 1.0} {844.5244881899999 7.14} ptopo/7-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1893.842519685 1 1.0} {1306.5748031498001 7.19} ptopo/9-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1278.0 1 1.0} {585.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {550.0 1 1.0} {589.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg02of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {6.0 1 1.0} {583.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg03of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {2568.0 0 0.7943282347242815} {1891.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03B.png 0 {}
Thanks for any insights. Regards Bruce
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Have you tried export of background sketches from therion as .xvi?
Martin
You mean like this? https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/outputs#map_th2_therion Although I put together that wiki page, I had forgotten this possibility, don’t think I have ever done it with sketches turned on. I think this is what you were referring to Alistair? So XTherion can scale, rotate and morph images. It is just an indirect process. Hopefully I will remember it for next time it comes up. Thanks Bruce 12. 5. 2021 v 22:36, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz <mailto:bruce@tomo.co.nz> >: Thanks for your replies Paul, Alastair and Axel, I was hoping to draw out discussion on basic image manipulation functions in XTherion and maybe to inspire someone to work on developing those. Maybe I have been successful but it is far too soon to tell. Paul, yes, scale and rotation control both for XTherion background images and exported map-images would be great. Alistair, Paul, my reason for wanting similar sized (scales) images in my th2 file was not so much to join them for the purposes of contiguous scrap drawing, but to avoid the need to zoom in or out when moving from one scrap to another. It also allows copying (with a text editor) drawing objects, then using Xtherion to move one of them from one scrap to another – useful for coincident lines on adjacent scrap boundaries and other things. Most of the time I avoid joining up background images, as for me Therion’s superpower is allowing the user to work on small easily manageable bits of information, then joining them up at compilation time. Axel. Yes, the Inkscape Plugin. I was excited about this when Thomas first posted it. I managed to parse a th2 file to InkScape, but then I was so lost that I got no further. Could not parse the th2 file back out to Therion, so I gave up at that point. I recognise the potential, but I am lacking knowledge and experience in the basics of image manipulation software. Maybe one day I will learn how to use Inkscape, Illustrator, GIMP, CoralDraw etc… I managed to enlarge my png image 3.5 x while reducing it from 600 kB to 500 kB using more or less default export settings in GIMP), so my miserly tendencies are satiated for now. I am working on my next question now… Bruce From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk <mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk> > On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton Sent: Friday, 7 May 2021 08:14 To: 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > Subject: [Therion] XTherion background image control and bitmap file size question Mōrena I am wondering if XTherion can scale background images, or if anyone has hints on scanned image settings that generate a larger background image, that is economical on bytes? Back story: I created a multi-level survey (shaft system in cave) with PocketTopo, rather than creating many small survey files to keep each level separate. At home I printed the PocketTopo bitmap, then sketched over three of the four main levels that I now want to draw with Therion. Then I created an xvi with TopParser (I chose my usual export settings, and of course maybe I could have chosen better settings). You can see the xvi and some drawing directly on that xvi in the image below. You can also see the three 100 dpi png background images that I imported into XTherion. The three images are much smaller than the xvi and while it so happens the zoom range is such in XTherion that I could easily draw my scraps over them, I would like all four scrap background to be a similar size. It just makes life easier into the future that way. I am a novice when it comes to bitmap manipulation, but I managed to use GIMP to scale up one of the images about 3.5 times. You can also see that in the image below. It is about the same size as the xvi which is what I am after My frustration is that the original png images are all about 600 kB and the enlarged image is about 3000 kB. I am a miser and I would like to minimise bloat in my project repository. Can we scale the image in XTherion, using the original smaller file as the permanent source? Or are there tricks to enlarging the png image while maintaining a modest file size? I am aware that jpg will likely compress to fewer bytes, and will try that unless it becomes too blurry. <image005.png> <image006.png> It looks like XTherion th2 file header has some unused controls. I could not find any documentation on this, so I have deduced the format as follows… ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {x coord visibility[0=off, 1=on] gamma} {y coord {<unknown empty variable>}} filename and path <unknown 0 variable> {< unknown empty variable >} Maybe there is scope for scaling and rotation of images by XTherion in here? !! Sample of th2 file header ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1386.4418110200002 1 1.0} {844.5244881899999 7.14} ptopo/7-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1893.842519685 1 1.0} {1306.5748031498001 7.19} ptopo/9-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1278.0 1 1.0} {585.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {550.0 1 1.0} {589.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg02of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {6.0 1 1.0} {583.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg03of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {2568.0 0 0.7943282347242815} {1891.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03B.png 0 {} Thanks for any insights. Regards Bruce _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
It works in cases the sketches are not in scale too. I use it from time to time. Points “extra” may help too. Check Thbook - samples at the end. Martin Odesláno z iPhonu 13. 5. 2021 v 10:33, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz>:
Have you tried export of background sketches from therion as .xvi? Martin
You mean like this? https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/outputs#map_th2_therion
Although I put together that wiki page, I had forgotten this possibility, don’t think I have ever done it with sketches turned on. I think this is what you were referring to Alistair? So XTherion can scale, rotate and morph images. It is just an indirect process. Hopefully I will remember it for next time it comes up.
Thanks Bruce
12. 5. 2021 v 22:36, Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz>:
Thanks for your replies Paul, Alastair and Axel, I was hoping to draw out discussion on basic image manipulation functions in XTherion and maybe to inspire someone to work on developing those. Maybe I have been successful but it is far too soon to tell.
Paul, yes, scale and rotation control both for XTherion background images and exported map-images would be great.
Alistair, Paul, my reason for wanting similar sized (scales) images in my th2 file was not so much to join them for the purposes of contiguous scrap drawing, but to avoid the need to zoom in or out when moving from one scrap to another. It also allows copying (with a text editor) drawing objects, then using Xtherion to move one of them from one scrap to another – useful for coincident lines on adjacent scrap boundaries and other things. Most of the time I avoid joining up background images, as for me Therion’s superpower is allowing the user to work on small easily manageable bits of information, then joining them up at compilation time.
Axel. Yes, the Inkscape Plugin. I was excited about this when Thomas first posted it. I managed to parse a th2 file to InkScape, but then I was so lost that I got no further. Could not parse the th2 file back out to Therion, so I gave up at that point. I recognise the potential, but I am lacking knowledge and experience in the basics of image manipulation software. Maybe one day I will learn how to use Inkscape, Illustrator, GIMP, CoralDraw etc…
I managed to enlarge my png image 3.5 x while reducing it from 600 kB to 500 kB using more or less default export settings in GIMP), so my miserly tendencies are satiated for now. I am working on my next question now…
Bruce
From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton Sent: Friday, 7 May 2021 08:14 To: 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk> Subject: [Therion] XTherion background image control and bitmap file size question
Mōrena I am wondering if XTherion can scale background images, or if anyone has hints on scanned image settings that generate a larger background image, that is economical on bytes?
Back story: I created a multi-level survey (shaft system in cave) with PocketTopo, rather than creating many small survey files to keep each level separate. At home I printed the PocketTopo bitmap, then sketched over three of the four main levels that I now want to draw with Therion. Then I created an xvi with TopParser (I chose my usual export settings, and of course maybe I could have chosen better settings).
You can see the xvi and some drawing directly on that xvi in the image below. You can also see the three 100 dpi png background images that I imported into XTherion. The three images are much smaller than the xvi and while it so happens the zoom range is such in XTherion that I could easily draw my scraps over them, I would like all four scrap background to be a similar size. It just makes life easier into the future that way. I am a novice when it comes to bitmap manipulation, but I managed to use GIMP to scale up one of the images about 3.5 times. You can also see that in the image below. It is about the same size as the xvi which is what I am after
My frustration is that the original png images are all about 600 kB and the enlarged image is about 3000 kB. I am a miser and I would like to minimise bloat in my project repository.
Can we scale the image in XTherion, using the original smaller file as the permanent source? Or are there tricks to enlarging the png image while maintaining a modest file size? I am aware that jpg will likely compress to fewer bytes, and will try that unless it becomes too blurry.
<image005.png> <image006.png>
It looks like XTherion th2 file header has some unused controls. I could not find any documentation on this, so I have deduced the format as follows…
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {x coord visibility[0=off, 1=on] gamma} {y coord {<unknown empty variable>}} filename and path <unknown 0 variable> {< unknown empty variable >}
Maybe there is scope for scaling and rotation of images by XTherion in here? !!
Sample of th2 file header
##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1386.4418110200002 1 1.0} {844.5244881899999 7.14} ptopo/7-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1893.842519685 1 1.0} {1306.5748031498001 7.19} ptopo/9-Laghu_p.xvi 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {1278.0 1 1.0} {585.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {550.0 1 1.0} {589.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg02of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {6.0 1 1.0} {583.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg03of03.png 0 {} ##XTHERION## xth_me_image_insert {2568.0 0 0.7943282347242815} {1891.8818897638002 {}} ptopo/7-LaghuPLAN-Sketches-26Jul2020-Pg01of03B.png 0 {}
Thanks for any insights. Regards Bruce
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„sketches on“ option: Original sketch: sketches option in scrap definition: thconfig: warped sketch in map editor: warped backround image in map editor:
participants (6)
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Alastair Gott -
Axel -
Bruce Mutton -
Martin Sluka -
Martin Sluka -
Paul Rowe