Gilbert It seems to me that the advice you followed in the wiki is not appropriate or at least out dated. If you offset any passage in this way (as described near the bottom of that wiki page) then of course all Therion outputs must reflect the new passage location. Your survey data is in effect intentionally corrupted. If you wish to offset a piece of the passage in a particular 2d pdf output for the purposes of clarity, but have Therion recognise that the passage has in reality not moved then try doing it this way; map MostOfCaveElevationElevExtMap \ -title "Most of Elevation" \ -projection extended scrap1infront scrap2nextinline break scrap3behind endmap map BitOfCaveObscuredElevationElevExtMap \ -title "Bit of Obscured Elevation" \ -projection extended scrap4obscured endmap map MostOfCaveOffsetBitOfCaveElevExtMap \ -title "Cave<br>Ext Elevation View" \ -projection extended MostOfCaveElevationElevExtMap BitOfCaveObscuredElevationElevExtMap [000 010 m] none endmap In a similar way you can manage lots of map variants, and they do not affect the integrity of your cave survey data. See pages 30-31 of the 5.2.7 Therion Book. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Gilbert Fernandes (mailinglist) Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2009 6:38 a.m. Subject: [Therion] Problem on moving scraps on the final survey I notice a problem when you try to move a part of the survey on the final survey. I follow the doc (wiki chapt 3.4.4 offseting scraps http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=tbe:wiki3 It work fine, but to move down a branch of the survey on an extended elevation, I add a virtual vertical survey with the flags indicated in the doc flags duplicate extend ignore 20 20a 10.00 90 0 0 0 0 0 But all the points "altitude" give the new altitude increased of 10 meters (with a vertical survey of 10 m). How can I do to have the good altitude ? Do you have a special flag on the survey measurments to say to therion to not take in account this survey for altitude ? I have the same probleme in the 3D model with Loch because my 3D model take in account this survey and my branch is not in the good place. If you have a solution, thanks a lot ! Gilbert