Hi guys, Lots of notes here on things I found and suggestions for improvements, but the important one first: I'm getting the hang of this and have drawn up some cave. It went OK until I got to a complicated section, with an underlying streamway adn overlying passages. The streamway needs to be a separate scrap. But I haven't got that far. One bit of wall wasn't shown. By adding a map-fg colour I could see that therion is very confused about what is the inside and what is the outside of the scrap. Here is the set of files needed to process this example: http://trilogy-gw.aleph1.co.uk/~wookey/files/bluemoon.tgz including the offending background image. You can see from the included pdf (also here: http://trilogy-gw.aleph1.co.uk/~wookey/files/bluemoon.pdf what the problem is. I;ve tried reversing some lines and reading the thbook, but I don;t know how to fix this. Does it in fact need to be split up into smaller, simpler scraps? why? I am hesitant to use smaller scraps on this drawing because none of the joins work when I just do join scrap1 scrap2 - it joins lines to the wrong places. I have to use explicit line ID's, which is really tedious - add line in map editor then add then to join command in text editor. Being able to graphically describe joins (at letsfor joins within one .th2 file) would be a really useful improvement. I'll send a separate mail for my other notes. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/