GIS is getting more and more powerful, and looks like it is doing what we try to do in programmes like aven and loch. So I can take the output from therion like the pdf and get it into QGIS, but I have to manually do it bbox seems to give the promise of coordinates however export map -format bbox gives the error therion: error -- thconfig [16] -- format not supported -- bbox If this does what I believe it should it would help. However, I was hoping that some of the more common formats could be supported, web research shows that goepdf exist, so hopefully this could be easily implemented. Although I'm not sure QGIS supports it, but here are pages describing how to convert it to geoTIFF and geoJPG getting these directly as an export would be even better. I also see that therion exports models and maps as shapefiles (esri) but again they seem not to have the coordinates in either? Am i missing something? Sorry I'm, just starting on this journey and already seem to be going round in circles thanks Andrew