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Hi Bruce, Xavier,<br>
<br>
thanks a lot for your feedbacks. I'll have a deep reading of these
pages to solve this problem. And furthermore, it will help me
understanding how Therion is working.<br>
<br>
Bruce, I'll also do as you mentioned -having one survey per file- to
simpify the solving of all these extended centreline problems. It's
the first time for me dealing with such a complicated cave.<br>
<br>
Xavier, I'll come back to you in a private email to find a suitable
time for you to have a chat on the phone (it was a bit complicated
today to open my PC). <br>
<br>
Cheers and thanks again.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 13/08/2021 11:33, Bruce Mutton a
écrit :<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Christophe <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Xavier (I think), the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/breakingextend">breaking
extend</a> page describes best what is going on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Follow that up with a look at this page, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend">https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend</a></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Placing ‘log extend’ in your thconfig will
help you understand the station sequence Therion is using to
develop the extend centreline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I notice you have many surveys in a single
th file. This means that you have to solve almost all of your
extended centreline problems before you will get a meaningful
output. While your surveys are quite short and I can see the
temptation to combine them as you have, the interconnectedness
makes them quite complicated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My preferred way of working is to restrict
each survey trip/session to a single survey definition, and I
would have only one survey definition per file (although the
latter I would consider optional).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you do that, you only need to solve the
extended centreline network one survey at a time, adding one
more, solving that, adding another, and solving that, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It also means that your xvi file and
scrap(s) only need represent a single survey – this is usually
much less confusing when you are drawing, both in plan and in
elevation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If, as you do in this project, I have a
backlog of undrawn surveys, I tend to resolve the whole
extended centreline network before starting to draw the
elevation. Theoretically not necessary, but I have found that
the presence of drawings can affect the network development.
‘Drawing last’ like this does not remove the problem, but it
does seem to make it both easier to notice, and easier to
resolve when it does happen (because you are only fixing one
issue in an otherwise resolved network).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good luck<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bruce<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Therion <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk"><therion-bounces@speleo.sk></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Xavier Pennec<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 13 August 2021 20:36<br>
<b>To:</b> Christophe Salti via Therion
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk"><therion@speleo.sk></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Therion] Loop problem in extended
elevation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Salut Chris,<br>
<br>
Je pense que c'est le choix de la station ou la boucle est
coupee qui est different. <br>
Voir par exemple : <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/breakingextend">https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/breakingextend</a><br>
<br>
A priori, il faudrait rajouter <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>extend ignore #station<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">pour que la
coupe developpée soit coupée a l'endroit ou tu préfères dans
chaque boucle. <br>
<br>
On peut en parler au telephone si tu veux (mon tel 06 78 35
16 90)<br>
<br>
Xavier<br>
<br>
Le 12/08/2021 à 18:42, Christophe Salti via Therion a
écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<br>
<br>
Hope that someone will be able to help me during this summer
vacation, knowing that it's the perfect timing for exploring
and surveying caves (but also to do the synthesis of past
surveys)...<br>
<br>
So, I'm working on an extended elevation map of a small but
complex cave in the South of France (+/- 1500m length &
+20/-40m high). Survey was done with a DistoX2 and Auriga
(13 surveys were done if I remember but I haven't attached
all of these). Most of the cave is made of boulders (énorme
éboulis), probably from tectonic origin; so there are plenty
of loops (it's a nightmare) and at least 5 or 6 levels. I
haven't been working yet on the plan map but I guess it's
not going to be a piece of cake (from a loop point of view).
Sketches were done by hand to help me during the synthesis.
I created an XVI file and I use it as background image.<br>
<br>
I'm working on PC an my therion version is :<br>
<img style="width:1.9583in;height:2.1458in"
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part4.06040101.08090106@laposte.net" border="0"
height="206" width="188"><br>
<br>
So my problem is the following (screenshots below): station
3.2 is unique but there are at least 2 side passages going
to different locations of the caves (see screenshots 1a
& 1b). During the survey, Auriga was displaying a unique
3.2 station and different paths (one going to 5.1, then 5.2
and the other one going to 3.11 then 3.16 and so on; see
screenshot 3 below). But when exported from Auriga into a
Therion format and then openned in Therion, I get two 3.2
shifted stations (scale is 1m x 1m), one for each path, as
seen in the screenshot 2a.<br>
<br>
Screen shot #1a (sketch: cross section & plan views)<br>
<img style="width:3.1875in;height:6.4583in"
id="Picture_x0020_2"
src="cid:part5.05030004.09080409@laposte.net" border="0"
height="620" width="306"><br>
<br>
<u>Screenshot 1b (sketch: cross section view)</u>:<br>
<br>
<img style="width:3.7013in;height:2.868in"
id="Picture_x0020_3"
src="cid:part6.06050308.04020704@laposte.net" border="0"
height="275" width="355"><br>
<br>
The 2 stations were surveyed at different times (but from
the same station/point as stated earlier).<br>
<br>
There are other stations with the same 'shift' problem (I'm
only at the begining of the synthesis process). For
instance, station 5.2 -which comes just after 3.2- is also
shifted as seen on the screen shot #2b.<br>
<br>
Is there something wrong I did ? Something I should do
instead? <br>
<br>
I've tried to "equate" stations 3.2 and 5.2 (I renamed them
before inserting the equate in the survey: first 3.2 in
survey #1 is kept as 3.2 but second 3.2 in survey #2 was
renamed 3.2bis; same for 5.2). Station was shifted/merged of
course but I was not able to shift my second 3.2 branch to
the 1st one..<br>
<br>
I have checked the very usefull "Therion by example", by
Marco Corvi, in the <i>4.4.2 Loops in extended elevation</i>
paragraph but I was not able to make it...<br>
<br>
Am I clear enough in my explanations? <br>
<br>
<u>Screenshot 2a below:</u><br>
<br>
<img style="width:10.6666in;height:5.8333in"
id="Picture_x0020_4"
src="cid:part7.08040507.03030808@laposte.net" border="0"
height="560" width="1024"><br>
<br>
<u>Screenshot 2b below:</u><br>
<img style="width:11.3958in;height:7.6805in"
id="Picture_x0020_5"
src="cid:part8.01010300.08070705@laposte.net" border="0"
height="737" width="1094"><br>
<br>
Why does Auriga is correctly displaying this sort of survey
(see screenshot #3 below) and not Therion, by default I mean
? I'm not criticising, of course, it's just a remark from a
beginner.<br>
-from station 3.2, there are 3 different paths going to
3.11, 5.1 and 3.3<br>
-from station 5.2, there are at least 2 different paths
going to 5.47 & 5.3 (there are probably other ways I
haven't check)<br>
<br>
<u>Screenshot #3 below:</u><br>
<br>
<img style="width:4.9375in;height:4.8055in"
id="Picture_x0020_6"
src="cid:part9.00090308.03070903@laposte.net" border="0"
height="461" width="474"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u>Screenshot #4 below</u>: full extended elevation screen
as seen in Auriga <br>
<br>
<img style="width:6.2013in;height:2.9305in"
id="Picture_x0020_7"
src="cid:part10.07040104.03000808@laposte.net" border="0"
height="281" width="595"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Would someone be kind enough to explain me how to deal with
it, please? then i should be able to solve most of the
others shift problems I'll face during this synthesis...<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Christophe Salti<br>
Groupe Speleo de Vence<br>
<br>
ps: I've attached the therion files in case someone could
help me...<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Therion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk">Therion@speleo.sk</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> -------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Xavier Pennec<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Senior Research Scientist / Directeur de recherche<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Epione project-team, INRIA Sophia-Antipolis<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> 2004 Route des Lucioles, BP93<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> F-06902 Sophia-Antipolis Cedex, France<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> +33 4 92 38 76 64<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> +33 6 78 35 16 90<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://team.inria.fr/epione/en/">https://team.inria.fr/epione/en/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> -------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
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