<div dir="ltr">The error only occurs when using the EOV (EPSG: 23700) coordinate system.<br></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br> <table style="border-top:1px solid #d3d4de">
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<td style="width:470px;padding-top:17px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Mentes a vírusoktól. <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank" style="color:#4453ea">www.avg.com</a> </td>
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<a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:59 AM Balambér Hakapesz <<a href="mailto:holl.balazs63@gmail.com">holl.balazs63@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"># 2021.02.08 created by TopoDroid v 5.0.79<br><br>#source "../th/<a href="http://kml.th" target="_blank">kml.th</a>"<br>source "<a href="http://kml.th" target="_blank">kml.th</a>"<br><br>layout topodroid<br> legend on<br> symbol-hide group centerline<br> symbol-show point station<br> debug station-names<br>endlayout<br><br>export map -layout topodroid -o kml-p.pdf -proj plan <br><br>export map -layout topodroid -o kml-s.pdf -proj extended<br><br># export model -fomat survex -o kmlth.3d <br><br>export model -output kmlo.3d<br>export model -output kmlo.lox<br>export model -output kmlo.dxf<br>export model -output kmlo.kml<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div># 2021.02.08 created by TopoDroid v 5.0.79<br><br>survey kml -title "kml"<br><br> centerline<br> #cs long-lat<br> #fix 0 19.009617 47.526453 262<br> cs EPSG:23700 #ez felel meg az EOV-nek<br> fix 0 647151 242509 262<br> date 2021.02.08 <br> # declination 5.0000 degrees<br> units length meters<br> units compass clino degrees<br> data normal from to length compass clino<br> extend right<br> 0 1 10.00 180.0 -90.0<br> 1 2 10.00 0.0 0.0<br> 2 3 10.00 90.0 0.0<br> units left right up down meters<br> data dimensions station left right up down<br> endcenterline<br><br>endsurvey<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-6329123508585773583DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br> <table style="border-top:1px solid rgb(211,212,222)">
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<td style="width:470px;padding-top:17px;color:rgb(65,66,78);font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Mentes a vírusoktól. <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" style="color:rgb(68,83,234)" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> </td>
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<a href="#m_-6329123508585773583_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:49 AM Benedikt Hallinger <<a href="mailto:beni@hallinger.org" target="_blank">beni@hallinger.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">What does the survex/aven file give you, is the error there also <br>
apparent?<br>
<br>
What is your full thconfig file for generating the kml and aven .3d?<br>
<br>
Dies the problem also exists when specifying this:<br>
cs EPSG:4326<br>
fix 0 19.009617 47.526453 262<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 2021-02-19 11:25, schrieb Balambér Hakapesz:<br>
> If I were to enter the ellisoid height, the error of Proj4 would still<br>
> remain on the EOV projection.<br>
> I could work in a UTM coordinate system, but it would be much simpler<br>
> if Therion didn’t recalculate anything. (There is no height issue<br>
> between UTM and WGS84 because there is no conversion)<br>
> This error is only present in the national projections where Proj4<br>
> performs approximate calculations for the advantage of horizontal<br>
> coordinates and the disadvantage of height.<br>
> <br>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:25 AM Balambér Hakapesz<br>
> <<a href="mailto:holl.balazs63@gmail.com" target="_blank">holl.balazs63@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> thconfig:<br>
>> #cs long-lat<br>
>> #fix 0 19.009617 47.526453 262<br>
>> cs EPSG:23700 # Hungarian EOV<br>
>> fix 0 647151 242509 262<br>
>> <br>
>> kml:<br>
>> <LineString><coordinates><br>
>> 19.00961011626948,47.52649337576407,291.08568208889801<br>
>> <br>
>> 291-262 = 29 m = 44m geoid height - 15m Proj4 error<br>
>> <br>
>> [2]<br>
>> Mentes a vírusoktól. <a href="http://www.avg.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> [2]<br>
>> <br>
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:06 AM Benedikt Hallinger<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:beni@hallinger.org" target="_blank">beni@hallinger.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>>> Isn't EGM84 the reference ellipsoid currently used by WGS84?<br>
>>> What you get with GPS is *not* sea level, but the altitude above<br>
>>> that<br>
>>> reference geoid (which takes into account gravital anonalys).<br>
>>> <br>
>>> If you calibrate your barometric altimeter to the hieght given by<br>
>>> a<br>
>>> height coordinate of WGS84 (like read from your car's navi at the<br>
>>> parking lot, or from a map calibrated to WGS84) then you should<br>
>>> get<br>
>>> about the same altitude.<br>
>>> If you take the cave location from GPS and enter that coordinates<br>
>>> into<br>
>>> the therion dataset wirh correct "cs" marking, the conversion<br>
>>> should<br>
>>> yield the correct result.<br>
>>> If you take the altitude from a map (or an altimeter calibrated to<br>
>>> that<br>
>>> map) in another coordinate system, you have to either apply an<br>
>>> offset<br>
>>> manually, add an instrument correction factor in therion, or<br>
>>> supply the<br>
>>> correct coordinate system (which then probalby demands conversion<br>
>>> of the<br>
>>> lat/lon coordinates).<br>
>>> <br>
>>> If generating 3D surfce meshes, you also need to supply matching<br>
>>> coordinate systems data and/or specify the correct "cs" parameter.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I think your problem comes from mixing coordinate systems in<br>
>>> respect to<br>
>>> the height model, either at data input or when using the height<br>
>>> mesh.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Am 2021-02-19 9:49, schrieb Balambér Hakapesz:<br>
>>>> Very rarely can anyone work at ellipsoidal heights. In local<br>
>>>> coordinate systems, it only makes sense for upper geodetic<br>
>>>> calculations. Only for GPS measurements we get an ellipsoidal<br>
>>>> altitude, even there the devices can immediately calculate the<br>
>>>> altitude of the EGM96 model with an altitude above sea level<br>
>>> (with a<br>
>>>> few meters error which is not significant compared to the 15m<br>
>>> altitude<br>
>>>> error of handheld GPS).<br>
>>>> Proj4 calculates the horizontal coordinates well, but there is a<br>
>>>> serious error in the height coordinates (for special national<br>
>>>> projections<br>
>>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
> (<a href="http://www.agt.bme.hu/gis/workshop4/eloadasok/proj_poszter_3d.pdf)" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.agt.bme.hu/gis/workshop4/eloadasok/proj_poszter_3d.pdf)</a>),<br>
>>>> so it would be better if not we would count on it but leave the<br>
>>>> altitude unchanged.<br>
>>>> Could it be an option not to change the height with Therion?<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> [2]<br>
>>>> Mentes a vírusoktól. <a href="http://www.avg.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> [1] [2]<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 9:18 AM Benedikt Hallinger<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:beni@hallinger.org" target="_blank">beni@hallinger.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> <br>
>>>>> Hi there,<br>
>>>>> if you measure the altitude with a barometric device, you do<br>
>>> not get<br>
>>>>> the<br>
>>>>> altitude above the ellipsoid. You have to account for that at<br>
>>> the<br>
>>>>> input<br>
>>>>> of your data.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> With the "cs" command you define your input data to be in a<br>
>>> specific<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> coordinate system, and also your altitude has to be given in<br>
>>> that<br>
>>>>> system. If you just put the barometric altitude there (which<br>
>>> you<br>
>>>>> usually<br>
>>>>> did calibrate to a map, didn't you?) you have to transform the<br>
>>>>> altitude<br>
>>>>> manually if the reference altitude differs.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>> Am 2021-02-19 8:44, schrieb Balambér Hakapesz:<br>
>>>>>> Hi!<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> When generating 3D models, Proj4 transforms between different<br>
>>>>>> coordinate systems.<br>
>>>>>> This also transforms the ellipsoidal altitude, but the data<br>
>>> always<br>
>>>>>> refer to altitude above sea level and should not be changed.<br>
>>>>>> The finished models do not fit the topography, you have to<br>
>>> cheat<br>
>>>>> with<br>
>>>>>> the height to be good.<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> Balázs Holl.<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> [1]<br>
>>>>>> Mentes a vírusoktól. <a href="http://www.avg.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> [1] [1] [1]<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> Links:<br>
>>>>>> ------<br>
>>>>>> [1]<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
> <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail</a><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Therion mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" target="_blank">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Therion mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" target="_blank">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a><br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> <br>
>>>> Links:<br>
>>>> ------<br>
>>>> [1] <a href="http://www.avg.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com</a><br>
>>>> [2]<br>
>>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
> <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail</a><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Therion mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" target="_blank">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Therion mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" target="_blank">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a><br>
>> <br>
>> [2]<br>
>> Mentes a vírusoktól. <a href="http://www.avg.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> [2]<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Links:<br>
> ------<br>
> [1] <a href="http://www.avg.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com</a><br>
> [2]<br>
> <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Therion mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" target="_blank">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Therion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" target="_blank">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br>
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