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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>Tarquin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I think Martin is right. And your example illustrates it well.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Your drawing shows two scraps, the red scrap should have a line at the pit of -outline out. The green scrap should have a line at the pit of -outline out. Outline in or outline none has no place in this example. Whether these scrap end lines (margin between red and green) are invisible walls or pit lines is a different consideration, and could be handled a number of ways. The line pit itself could be in either scrap (or both, but preferably not).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Maybe it is like this:<o:p></o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0cm' type=disc><li class=MsoPlainText style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Line orientation (yellow tick) primarily controls orientation of line ornamentation. By convention it doubles as a way to determine the interior of an object (rock, passage) or the free-space side of the line. Usually these two criteria correlate perfectly (think of line wall:sand or line pit), but sometimes these criteria are in conflict, and the draughtsperson needs to get creative!<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoPlainText style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Line outline attribute is primarily for definition of the interior of a scrap. This differs subtly from thinking of it as the interior of a passage. Imagine a passage and oxbow. If they are all drawn as one scrap, the interior wall must be -outline in. If they are drawn as two or more scraps, all the walls must be -outline out. In some cases Therion can already compensate for user error, and maybe in future it might be appropriate to automate it.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoPlainText style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>These are two separate considerations that are (and should continue to be) handled independently (whether by the user manually or automatically by the software).<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>1. Whether "-outline out" is actually the correct thing to use when the pit line points outwards rather than inwards.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>As per the points above. They are two mostly independent considerations.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>2. Why it even matters which way we draw a *wall*, if "outline out"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>As you have picked, the pdf engine can solve the problem of what is the inside of a passage more often than the 3d model engines. Perhaps in theory better coding would make the outline attribute redundant. For now, giving users the outline attribute gives them control.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Bruce<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion<br>Sent: Thursday, 12 December 2019 04:59<br>To: therion@speleo.sk<br>Cc: Tarquin Wilton-Jones <tarquin.wilton-jones@ntlworld.com><br>Subject: Re: [Therion] Setting -outline for pit lines</span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> You may not specify attribute -outline in case of pit.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Why not? It is perfectly normal for a passage to end at a pit, and that pit therefore becomes a line that terminates a passage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I have attached a hand drawn example of how this would appear normally on a plan view (at least, this is how it would normally appear on a plan survey in the UK, such as the survey of a pothole - vertical cave - like Swinsto or Simpson's).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>"-outline in" does work on the pit line here for generating a PDF. But shows a warning when generating LOX.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>"-outline out" also works without a warning when generating LOX or when generating PDF.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>What I don't understand is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>1. Whether "-outline out" is actually the correct thing to use when the pit line points outwards rather than inwards.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>2. Why it even matters which way we draw a *wall*, if "outline out"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>always can pick the "correct" side to fill. Surely if it can work out the "correct" side of a pit line, it can also work out the correct side of a "wall" line, and it doesn't even matter whether the yellow tick points towards "air" or "rock".<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>(Having to have an invisible wall on the lower scrap makes complete sense to me though, since that has to have a curved wall matching the curve of the pit line above. This is what I already use.)<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>