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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>My comment here does not address the original topodroid to Therion line orientation question – as I have not checked this.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>So possibly a digression, but once a line is in Therion…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>As Martin said, SKBB and UIS convention is that drawing ticks are 'in air' (matching the XTherion yellow tick line orientation convention). To expand, this follows through for pits, slopes, gradients, meanders, wall:flowstone, ceiling steps etc<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>For NZSS, the convention is similar, but the drawing tick points could be thought of as pointing to the 'lower side' of the rock surface. This results in the same orientation of the drawn line ornamentation (to SKBB and UIS) for all except ceiling steps, meanders and chimneys. I have explained it slightly differently, in terms of the XTherion yellow tick line orientation (which is a different ‘thing’), here <a href="https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist#wall">https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist#wall</a> together with some other exceptions to XTherion line orientation convention.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Generally, to rely on Therion's defaults will result in disappointment at some stage, at least to those that do not speak sk (Slovak) [I hope I have got that right]. For example I generally add <span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'>language en</span> (English) to my layout, so that I may understand what is produced.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Similarly I select the symbol set and specific symbol reassignments that are used (or that I like to use) in my region. For example…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'> symbol-set NZSS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'> symbol-assign line gradient BCRA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'> symbol-assign point gradient BCRA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'> symbol-assign area debris AUT <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'> symbol-assign line wall:debris AUT <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'> symbol-assign point debris AUT<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif'> etc<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>To not do this and rely on defaults will generally result in confusion or unhappiness at some point.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>To ‘compensate’ by reversing lines may result in a project that plots incorrectly when you toggle to another symbol set (I occasionally produce both NZSS and UIS versions of maps, and these have the opposite convention). It also tends to destroy loch models, as line:pit orientation governs model generation, and chimney and meander etc could potentially in the future. Passage shading in pdf outputs can be affected to.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Bruce<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> On Behalf Of Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion<br>Subject: Re: [Therion] ceiling step in the wrong direction when exported from topodroid</span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> I've noticed that when I export sketches from Topodroid to Therion all <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> of the ceiling step lines are in the wrong direction. it doesn't <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> happen in the other lines...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Are you sure it's not just that TopoDroid or Therion uses a symbol set that shows the "lower" and "higher" side using the opposite notation from what you expect (and opposite to what Therion uses by default)?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Looking through the Therion symbols file:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><u><span style='color:#4472C4'><a href="https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/_media/therion_symbols_20130407_.pdf"><span style='color:#4472C4'>https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/_media/therion_symbols_20130407_.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></u></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:#4472C4'>SKBB </span>and UIS default to having the tail of the symbol in one direction, while <span style='color:#4472C4'>NZSS </span>has it the other way. Therion seems to default to using SKBB notation, while TopoDroid probably uses UIS.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Now that is confusing, and I have probably been using the wrong direction all this time, since I just left it on the defaults, In the UK at least, people seem to use the UIS version, so I have just been setting "reverse" on the lines as needed...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Therion mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Therion@speleo.sk</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>