<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Nick,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">if you define stations in your scrap, you must to name them. When named as in centerline, for example A1, A2, A3, etc., it means the scrap data must have access to centerline data in the same survey/endsurvey wrapper.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="http://a.th" class="">a.th</a></div><div class="">survey a</div><div class="">input a.th2</div><div class="">centerline</div><div class="">data …</div><div class="">A1 A2</div><div class="">…</div><div class="">endcenterline</div><div class="">endsurvey</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In this example if you use <a href="http://a.th" class="">a.th</a> as source in .thconfig file everything will work and Therion will export map. <span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">You may need to define map in first level survey to export it.</span></div><div class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class="">„input“ means only and only Therion will insert text from another file, nothing else. You may do the same if you copy/paste text from .th2 file into .th file instead of „input“.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But if you use higher level .th file (index) to input both <a href="http://a.th" class="">a.th</a> and a.th2 file you must change names of stations in .th2 file to A1@a etc. Simply because .th2 file is outside of survey "a" and stations have no direct access to centerline data but only as centerline in survey „a" data. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It means if you debug your drawing in first level, but define maps in second (index) level, you must change names of your stations or do it by -station-names woodoo.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Everything depends on where are defined maps and others objects in survey/endsurvey wrapper hierarchy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Martin S.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">2. 3. 2018 v 14:39, Nick Bairstow via Therion <<a href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk" class="">therion@speleo.sk</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Martin, thank you for explaining that clearly, it seems I may have been over complicating things.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">It would though, be nice to understand how the -station-names whoodoo works if only for future reference. I have found some stuff on the Wiki but nothing that makes any sense to me.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Our data set has only been one level so far and with hindsight we should have done things very differently but at the start of the learning process you can not always see that. Anyway this week we have two levels of data working with the latest stuff so a step forward I think.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">I keep looking at the older stuff and thinking about redoing it to organise it better but then think well it all works, so lets not bother and go for a beer.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Nick<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Therion [<a href="mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk" class="">mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Martin Sluka via Therion<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>02 March 2018 11:10<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>List for Therion users <<a href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk" class="">therion@speleo.sk</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Martin Sluka <<a href="mailto:martinsluka@mac.com" class="">martinsluka@mac.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Nick,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">first off all, Therion is able to work only with unique informations which are in a survey/endsurvey wrapper.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">It means, if you define map outside of the survey/endsurvey wrapper in .th file there must be another higher level survey/endsurvey wrapper which will cover all information Therion needs and which you define as source in .thconfig.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">My way is to use for first level surveys (log of one survey trip) definitions of map(s) inside survey/endsurvey wrapper as I include particular .th2 file there too. So in this survey/endsurvey wrapper are all informations including scrap drawings. In higher level I simply "input" .th file, which means the survey/endsurvey wrapper of higher level has access to all necessary data without -station-names woodoo.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">When I want to define a higher level map I must use scrap_name@survey<span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">_name, not only scrap_name. Etc.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">Martin S.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br class="">On Mar 02, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Nick Bairstow via Therion <<a href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">therion@speleo.sk</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">OK as is normally the case with these things I spotted the error within five minutes of asking for help, but it has raised a another question.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">My problem was quite simply I had no survey/end survey wrapper. I have been using this index file for over two years and never noticed however it has worked perfectly and produced what I needed.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I now ask why did the <a href="http://index.th" class="">index.th</a> compile OK with the other 18 surveys listed in it.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The only difference between the first 18 surveys and the last non-working one was that in each scrap of the 18 previous surveys I used the option -station-names “” “@surveyname”. I was shown this when I started learning Therion but never really new why. When using this option to make any <a href="http://survey.th" class="">survey.th</a> compile I have to make sure the map/endmap is outside the survey/endsurvey wrapper.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">With the my latest survey file I did not use the scrap option and just went with the “normal way” with everything in <a href="http://survey.th" class="">survey.th</a> within the survey/endsurvey and then the index .th failed due to having no survey/endsurvey wrapper.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Clearly I do not yet fully understand the process even though I can make things work, so lots more reading I think. Does anyone know of a good explanation somewhere, most thing I read I find a little confusing.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Also if someone would like to explain the<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">-station-names “” “@surveyname” bit I would be very grateful.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I suspect I’m not the only one to have struggled with this.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks for the previous answers guys.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Nick<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Therion [<a href="mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Bruce Mutton via Therion<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>01 March 2018 19:23<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'List for Therion users' <<a href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">therion@speleo.sk</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bruce Mutton <<a href="mailto:bruce@tomo.co.nz" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">bruce@tomo.co.nz</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-NZ" class="">Nick</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-NZ" class="">I’m guessing you have created a map that contains the survey only for your new cave, and a map which contains scraps or maps for your other caves.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-NZ" class="">I do this intentionally while I am drawing up a new piece of passage, then remove the survey map once I am finished.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-NZ" class="">Bruce</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-NZ" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Therion <</span><a href="mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">therion-bounces@speleo.sk</span></a><span lang="EN-US" class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Nick Bairstow via Therion<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, 2 March 2018 7:38 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>List for Therion users <</span><a href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">therion@speleo.sk</span></a><span lang="EN-US" class="">><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nick Bairstow <</span><a href="mailto:Nick@pff.uk.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Nick@pff.uk.com</span></a><span lang="EN-US" class="">><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-NZ" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I have just added a small cave to my main index .th. Everything compiles but the pdf shows the new cave as shots and splays not as the normal walls etc you would expect in a map. All other caves display correctly as intended.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Has anyone point out what I am doing wrong.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Nick</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="body-text-content">_______________________________________________</span><br class=""><span class="body-text-content">Therion mailing list</span><br class=""><span class="body-text-content"><a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">Therion@speleo.sk</a></span><br class=""><span class="body-text-content"><a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Therion mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>