<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Bill,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I just checked my layout in Therion 5.3.16</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">layout AB<br class=""> scale 1 1000 <br class=""> debug station-names<br class=""> symbol-colour area water [0 0 70]<br class=""> symbol-set AUT<br class=""> color map-bg 90<br class=""> #debug on<br class=""> symbol-show group centerline<br class="">endlayout <br class=""><br class="">layout BB <br class=""> scale 1 1000<br class="">endlayout<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">export map -o ./export/ab_plan_1_171114_AB.pdf -layout AB<br class="">export map -o ./export/ab_plan_1_171114_BB.pdf -layout BB</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="">Martin S.</div><div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="7BA4B729-DD44-4CE7-B4F0-F277AA0897DD" height="380" width="516" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:C6243FCD-B972-4011-BD32-B38C0C092F68" class=""> <img apple-inline="yes" id="7A753518-F7A8-402A-9215-5DF33B4522BA" height="437" width="484" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:1C630132-0A6F-44E6-B8C9-43A8C81946EB" class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">14. 11. 2017 v 15:07, Bill Gee via Therion <<a href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk" class="">therion@speleo.sk</a>>:<br class=""><br class="">Hello everyone -<br class=""><br class="">I have managed to get what I want, though I do not completely understand why <br class="">it works. Thanks to Bruce and Torsten for valuable pointers.<br class=""><br class="">The attached file is my thconfig with modifications for the large legend. The <br class="">layout for "mainmapprint" contains the MetaPost and TeX code.<br class=""><br class="">In truth, I think the main reason I am getting the large legend now is because <br class="">I changed the scale to 1:800. When I looked at the relation between the <br class="">desired size of printout and the bounding box of the cave, I get a ratio in <br class="">the range of 1:800. It is actually 1:851 for north-south and 1:705 for east-<br class="">west, so 1:800 seems a reasonable middle ground.<br class=""><br class="">I tried various "base-scale" settings but could not see any visible change. <br class="">It was effectively a null setting.<br class=""><br class="">I discovered some other issues while testing. First, the settings for "debug <br class="">station-names" and "symbol-show group centerline" are apparently global. If <br class="">they are set in any layout-endlayout section, then they are set for all <br class="">subsequent layouts. Is that how they should behave?<br class=""><br class="">Second - I want to add the current date and Therion version to the legend. <br class="">The TeX code includes \the\currentdate and \the\thversion. Both items do show <br class="">up on the legend, just below the symbol table. However, they totally ignore <br class="">the {\size[]} option. Is that option implemented for these TeX macros? It <br class="">does not produce any errors when compiling the map. It also does not change <br class="">anything! Another null setting ...<br class=""><br class="">The Therion Book on page 69 lists all of the TeX macros that can be used on <br class="">map layouts. However, it says NOTHING about what options and parameters are <br class="">implemented. The sample code in the Therion Book, on the Wiki and in the <br class="">files Torsten sent me show some of these macros with options. Is there a <br class="">place where ALL options and parameters of ALL macros are documented?<br class=""><br class="">Thanks!<br class=""><br class="">-- <br class="">Bill Gee<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Friday, November 10, 2017 1:18:45 AM CST Bruce Mutton via Therion wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Bill<br class="">If I were in your situation (as I think I have been from time to time), then<br class="">I would opt for targeting an exported map that was close to the 3'x2' paper<br class="">size when printed at full size. I would do this by using 'scale 1 xxx'<br class="">where xxx is one of the preferred scales that gives you close to the right<br class="">paper size. That is assuming the full size legend, north arrow, header text<br class="">are more or less the right size for your needs, or only need minor tweaks.<br class=""><br class="">Then if some symbols are not quite right, I would limit my code<br class="">customisation to only those symbols. Judging by examples you have posted<br class="">on the wiki, you are pretty good at this. Examples in<br class=""><a href="https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#cave_symbol_size_and_density_exampl" class="">https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#cave_symbol_size_and_density_exampl</a><br class="">es provide some patterns to guide changes in fill density, and the<br class="">discussion near the top of the page about variables u, v and w might be<br class="">helpful.<br class=""><br class="">As Felix mentioned, you can tweak text and symbol size with 'base-scale 1<br class="">yyy', if you want to optimise for printing larger or smaller than full<br class="">size.<br class=""><br class="">Seems to me that this approach is likely to be the path of least resistance,<br class="">requiring only changes to your layouts and some metapost. Optimising<br class="">standard output elements for printing at the 'wrong size' just seems<br class="">counter productive to me.<br class=""><br class="">I should admit however that I tend to avoid using fills like clay, sand,<br class="">debris, blocks, and rather use points. That avoids the fill density issues<br class="">you describe, but I appreciate if you already have a large investment in<br class="">area fills your approach may be tempting.<br class=""><br class="">Bruce<br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bill Gee via<br class="">Therion Sent: Friday, 10 November 2017 8:37 AM<br class="">To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk><br class="">Cc: Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net><br class="">Subject: Re: [Therion] Increase size of legend<br class=""><br class="">Hi Bruce -<br class=""><br class="">The reason for 1m x 0.6m paper (actually 3 feet by 2 feet) is because that<br class="">is the size of the frame that the landowner wishes to display the map in. <br class="">It is also the largest size we can get printed for any reasonable cost.<br class=""><br class="">I've been using 1:200 for this map. Scales of 1:500 and higher make the<br class="">fills on the map too sparse. A clay area might have one clay symbol in it.<br class="">Scales below 1:200 make the fills too dense.<br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">Bill Gee<br class=""><br class="">On Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:02:00 PM CST Bruce Mutton via Therion wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Bill<br class=""><br class="">Sounds like you need to print on a larger piece of paper. 1m x 0.6m is<br class="">quite modest. I presume you are not printing your pdf file out at the<br class="">full size that Therion generated it at.<br class=""><br class="">I have not had any legend size issues with a 30km cave, although I must<br class="">admit that I do with very small caves, where the legend ends up much<br class="">bigger<br class="">than the cave itself!<br class=""><br class="">If you want to fit your cave to paper of a particular size, then change<br class="">the<br class="">scale. I rarely use anything less than 'scale 1 1000' for a cave longer<br class="">than 1km.<br class=""><br class="">To be precise about fitting the cave to a particular paper size, then<br class="">'export atlas' will give a better result than 'export map', although of<br class="">course atlas do give quite a different end product, and take a bit more<br class="">care and attention to set up well.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Bruce<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bill Gee via<br class="">Therion<br class="">Sent: Friday, 10 November 2017 2:45 AM<br class="">To: Therion Mail List <therion@speleo.sk><br class="">Cc: Bill Gee <bgee@campercaver.net><br class="">Subject: [Therion] Increase size of legend<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Hello everyone -<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">I need to make the legend on a map larger. The cave has grown to nearly<br class="">3km<br class="">of passage, and even when printed on 60cm x 100cm paper the legend is too<br class="">smal to read. Even a magnifying glass does not help!<br class=""><br class="">. snipped.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks!<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Therion mailing list<br class="">Therion@speleo.sk<br class="">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Therion mailing list<br class="">Therion@speleo.sk<br class="">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""><span id="cid:A67CC2B5-51D4-4060-AD90-BB26BDD68E42"><thconfig.txt></span>_______________________________________________<br class="">Therion mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Therion@speleo.sk" class="">Therion@speleo.sk</a><br class="">https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""></div></body></html>