<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I put my map definitions for each survey at the end of the th2 file. I use the survey name followed by projection as the map name using camel notation <div class="">e.g. surveyNamePlan</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This way I always know how to reference the map for any survey without having to look in the file.</div><div class="">The maps are then put together in a separate file in the top level folder in a file which I name <a href="http://caveSystemMaps.th" class="">caveSystemMaps.th</a> where caveSystem is obviously the name of the top level map. I used to use cave system_maps.th as the file name but I've found by using camel notation for all map items it differentiates them from survey names.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This file contains all the maps and combinations of maps</div><div class="">eg. </div><div class="">map caveSystemPlan -title "Cave System Plan"</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>surveyNamePlan</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>surveyName2Plan</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>break</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>lowerLevelsPlan</div><div class="">endmap</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">map lowerLevelsPlan</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>surveyName3Plan</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>surveyName4Plan [100 50 m] above</div><div class="">endmap</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A real example can be seen here <a href="http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Sarawak/Mulu/Api/Clearwater/" class="">http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Sarawak/Mulu/Api/Clearwater/</a> in the file clearwater_maps.th</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is my template for thconfig files. I just do find and replace surveyName with whatever my survey name is and modify the line #select surveyNamePlan to camel notation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For folder structure I put all output files into a top level folder called output to make it easier to archive everything to a repository excluding the output files which can be reproduced by Therion. This saves a lot of space on the server.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">encoding utf-8</div><div class="">######################################## Input ################################################</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">source <a href="http://surveyName.th" class="">surveyName.th</a></div><div class="">input /Users/daveclucas/Documents/caving/surveys/common_layout.th</div><div class="">input /Users/daveclucas/Documents/caving/surveys/therionLayouts/layoutscales.thc</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">######################################## Layouts ################################################</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">layout layout</div><div class=""> copy common</div><div class=""> copy LayoutScale2000</div><div class=""> map-header 0 0 off</div><div class=""> rotate 60</div><div class="">endlayout</div><div class="">layout images</div><div class=""> map-image 0 100 sw ../output/componentElevations/surveyName_elev300.pdf</div><div class=""> map-header 0 0 nw</div><div class="">endlayout</div><div class="">layout xviScale</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>scale 1 1000</div><div class="">endlayout</div><div class="">layout debug</div><div class=""> colour map-fg altitude</div><div class=""> symbol-show point station</div><div class=""> debug station-names</div><div class="">endlayout</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">######################################## Output ################################################</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">export model -o ../output/componentModels/surveyName.lox</div><div class="">export model -o ../output/componentModels/surveyName.3d</div><div class="">#export model -o ..output/componentModels/surveyName.kml<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>#requires a fixed station in survey</div><div class="">#export map -o ../output/componentModels/surveyName.kml<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>#requires a fixed station in survey</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">export map -o ../output/componentModels/surveyName.xvi -layout xviScale</div><div class="">export map -o ../output/componentModels/surveyName_e300.xvi -layout xviScale -proj [elevation 300]</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">#export map -o ../output/componentElevations/surveyName_elev300.pdf -proj [elevation 300] -layout layout -layout LayoutScale1000</div><div class="">#select surveyNamePlan</div><div class="">#export map -o ../output/componentPlans/surveyName.pdf -layout layout -layout LayoutScale1000 #-layout images</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">#################################################################################################</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dave Clucas<br class=""><a href="http://daveclucas.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;" class="">daveclucas.com</a><br class=""><a href="http://sarawak-caves.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;" class="">sarawak-caves.com</a><br class=""><a href="mailto:daveclucas@icloud.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;" class="">dave.clucas@icloud.com</a><br class=""><br class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class=""><b class="">Exploring the World</b></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;" class=""> - One cave at a time<br class=""><br class=""></span></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 27 Apr 2015, at 04:11, <a href="mailto:therion-request@speleo.sk" class="">therion-request@speleo.sk</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">Send Therion mailing list submissions to<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:therion@speleo.sk" class="">therion@speleo.sk</a><br class=""><br class="">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion<br class="">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>therion-request@speleo.sk<br class=""><br class="">You can reach the person managing the list at<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>therion-owner@speleo.sk<br class=""><br class="">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br class="">than "Re: Contents of Therion digest..."<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Today's Topics:<br class=""><br class=""> 1. Re: Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5 (Rob Countess)<br class=""> 2. Re: Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5 (Bruce)<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Message: 1<br class="">Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 15:30:23 -0700<br class="">From: Rob Countess <rob.countess@gmail.com><br class="">Subject: Re: [Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5<br class="">To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk><br class="">Message-ID:<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><CAJJSGway102cCAHVUMhacaEsobRgyhAJn7WBd167chzLhRzeAQ@mail.gmail.com><br class="">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class=""><br class="">Bruce,<br class=""><br class="">Again thanks for all your help.<br class=""><br class="">In your attachment you had some mention of where to put low-level map<br class="">definitions. Could you explain the benefits of placing map definitions:<br class="">1) in the file outside of surfer/endsurvery<br class="">2) in the file inside of at and the start of survey/endsurvey<br class="">3) in separate file<br class=""><br class="">It seems like you've given this a lot of thought and would choose<br class="">differently if you were starting out again and since I am just starting out<br class="">I'd like to understand more.<br class=""><br class="">Rob<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">The survey network and map hierarchies are then tied together in INDEX.th<br class="">files<br class=""><br class="">[If I were to start my 'Therion life' again, I would place the map<br class="">definitions inside of, and at the start of the survey-endsurvey block to<br class="">promote ease of use and simpler map references in INDEX files. The above<br class="">structure was intended to make maps independent of surveys (which is<br class="">preferred), but I did not think it through ? to achieve that we would have<br class="">to have map definitions in separate files. Separate files would work OK,<br class="">but would increase the number or size of files. At the time, we chose not<br class="">to go this way. Another time, I might choose differently. Bruce]<br class=""><br class="">On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Bruce <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""> Rob<br class=""><br class="">This is not a dataset, but it is an example of a file I have recently<br class="">started placing at the top level of a survey project folder, to remind me<br class="">and other users what conventions are used and preferred in a particular<br class="">project. It might, indirectly, help you think about some of the<br class="">considerations when starting a large project.<br class=""><br class="">See attached.<br class=""><br class="">Bruce<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""> ------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">*From:* therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On<br class="">Behalf Of *Rob Countess<br class="">*Sent:* Friday, 24 April 2015 7:58 a.m.<br class="">*To:* List for Therion users<br class="">*Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Does anyone mind sending me one of your data sets. It would help me<br class="">understand the structure and organization.<br class=""><br class="">I have data for several cave areas on Vancouver Island BC Canada in Walls<br class="">and On Station. I want to convert the whole mess.<br class=""><br class="">My data sets are<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Glory 'ole/Arch Cave area<br class=""><br class=""> -18 km in 4 main caves and a dozen or so smaller caves linked by<br class="">overland survey and GPS<br class=""><br class=""> - longest caves are Arch (10.6 km km 3 entrances), Glory 'ole (2.7 km)<br class="">Pellucidar (1.9 km) Resonance (1.8 km)<br class=""><br class=""> - Arch cave is divided into several series based on streams and<br class="">distinct areas of the cave<br class=""><br class=""> - 3 caves (Glory 'ole, Resonance, and Arch) overlap in plan view (I<br class="">want to produce a high level map with all three caves in different colours,<br class="">initially just line plots but eventually real maps)<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">White Ridge<br class=""><br class="">-7 km in 3 main caves and a half dozen smaller caves Linked by radio<br class="">location and GPS<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Larch Mountain<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">2 km in 3 main caves and a dozen smaller caves linked by GPS<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">I also have a friend that manages data for Weymer Creek (over 30 km in<br class="">over 100 caves, longest are 12 and 9 km lots of caves overlap in plan<br class="">view). I am trying to convince him to switch to Therion too.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">I am looking for an example data set that has<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">1) multiple caves in one caving area<br class=""><br class="">2) at least one cave large enough to be broken into series<br class=""><br class="">3) overlapping layers in at least one of the caves<br class=""><br class="">4) examples of files to produces different outputs with overlapping caves<br class="">or cave series in different colours on the same map.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Rob Countess<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">PS If you don't want to spam the mailing list then send to:<br class=""><br class="">rob.countess@gmail.com<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Therion mailing list<br class="">Therion@speleo.sk<br class="">http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote>-------------- next part --------------<br class="">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">URL: <http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150426/1e56e71d/attachment-0001.htm><br class=""><br class="">------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Message: 2<br class="">Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:42:46 +1200<br class="">From: Bruce <bruce@tomo.co.nz><br class="">Subject: Re: [Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5<br class="">To: 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk><br class="">Message-ID: <DEDCE55D68574851B851AF33E6437693@JUICEBRAIN><br class="">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br class=""><br class="">Rob<br class=""><br class="">.my experiences only, others may have other perspectives. And hope it is<br class="">not exposing my ignorance.<br class=""><br class="">What I have found is that once you start generating a particular structure<br class="">(and naming convention) it is very tedious to rearrange it later, because<br class="">the names and relationships get embedded in all of the scraps, maps, index<br class="">files etc, of which there are a lot.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">So, Low level map (ie first stage collection of scraps into usable maps)<br class="">definitions;<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">1) in the survey.th file outside of survey/endsurvey: Was a feeble<br class="">attempt to disassociate the maps (artistic and may have many forms) from the<br class="">survey (predetermined by the survey that actually occurred in the field and<br class="">'fixed') when I was new to Therion. <br class="">Pros: means related map and scraps are close at hand to the survey when you<br class="">are drawing and later when you want to edit. No wondering where to find<br class="">them.<br class="">-Lends itself to self contained map and survey datasets in each cave folder.<br class="">Cons: The map and survey may well be disassociated at the lowest level, but<br class="">in a real cave system where multiple surveys are collected together in an<br class="">INDEX file, they become dependant again, in that all references to the<br class="">low-level maps need a suffix such as @cavename. So they are really<br class="">dependant in a hybrid kind of way.<br class="">-Is more complicated to figure out map references because of this.<br class="">-It is harder to completely rearrange the structure of the maps, for<br class="">example, as you explore the cave and see that better map arrangements are<br class="">possible.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">2) in the survey.th file inside of (and at the start of)<br class="">survey/endsurvey:<br class="">Pros: same as for 1) and.<br class="">-Maps at the beginning because once the survey is entered you hardly ever<br class="">change it much so the survey may as well be lower down in the file. During<br class="">drawing and subsequent edits (as always happen in a growing cave survey and<br class="">map) the low level maps can get quite a bit of tweaking. So beginning of<br class="">file makes them quicker to find.<br class="">-Results in a truly dependant map and survey set ('aesthetically' cleaner<br class="">than item 1 above)<br class="">-Easy to understand, fewer files.<br class="">Cons: Maps and surveys are codependant. If once you have a hierarchical<br class="">structure with your 43 caves entered and drawn, you want to produce a map<br class="">with part of one cave system and part of another system, which may be<br class="">physically close in the earth, but in the Therion dataset in completely<br class="">different folder branches because of how the cave exploration evolved, you<br class="">will end up with complicated map references.<br class="">ie @upperseries.cave1.region4<br class="">-It is harder to completely rearrange the structure of the maps, for<br class="">example, as you explore the cave and see that better map arrangements are<br class="">possible.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">3) not in the survey file at all: (I have never done it so a bit<br class="">theoretical for me)<br class="">Pros: Maps are independent of surveys (except for the obvious relationship<br class="">due to the survey stations that tie the map to the survey).<br class="">-Low level maps need not be limited by the extent of the low level surveys.<br class="">Make your lowest level maps suit the natural form of the cave passages, not<br class="">the extent of arbitrary survey trips.<br class="">-I don't think you end up with any subscripts in your map references ie<br class="">@cavename, so very much simpler (I could be wrong here)<br class="">-You can dispense with 'low-level' map definitions altogether, and so for a<br class="">moderate length (and simply laid out) cave, just put all your scraps in a<br class="">single map definition for the cave (although this may not be very<br class="">'modular').<br class="">-Lends itself to hierarchical survey folders with all maps defined at the<br class="">top project level (or cave level) folders if you want.<br class="">Cons: Another type of file to manage and keep track of (ie surveys, maps,<br class="">indexes, layouts etc) - although this should not be a problem with modern<br class="">text editors.<br class="">-Either almost twice as many files to manage (surveys and maps) or if low<br class="">level maps are dispensed with, very long cumbersome to navigate map<br class="">definition files.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">So, what I currently do is described in number 1).<br class=""><br class="">What would be an improvement is described in number 2) - thanks to Andrew<br class="">Atkinson.<br class=""><br class="">What I would try if I was start my 'Therion Life' again is described in<br class="">number 3).<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">There is no reason why a dataset created along the lines of 1) or 2) cannot<br class="">have a 'parallel' set of maps developed along the lines of 3) at a later<br class="">date. It is just hard to find the motivation if you already have something<br class="">that works! There is also the risk of confusing yourself with variations of<br class="">maps that are similar to each other.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Anyway, enough talk. I'll get in trouble for not working on my share of the<br class="">map drawing.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Bruce<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""> _____ <br class=""><br class="">From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf<br class="">Of Rob Countess<br class="">Sent: Monday, 27 April 2015 10:30 a.m.<br class="">To: List for Therion users<br class="">Subject: Re: [Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Bruce,<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Again thanks for all your help.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">In your attachment you had some mention of where to put low-level map<br class="">definitions. Could you explain the benefits of placing map definitions:<br class=""><br class="">1) in the file outside of survey/endsurvery<br class=""><br class="">2) in the file inside of at and the start of survey/endsurvey<br class=""><br class="">3) in separate file<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">It seems like you've given this a lot of thought and would choose<br class="">differently if you were starting out again and since I am just starting out<br class="">I'd like to understand more.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Rob<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">The survey network and map hierarchies are then tied together in INDEX.th<br class="">files<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">[If I were to start my 'Therion life' again, I would place the map<br class="">definitions inside of, and at the start of the survey-endsurvey block to<br class="">promote ease of use and simpler map references in INDEX files. The above<br class="">structure was intended to make maps independent of surveys (which is<br class="">preferred), but I did not think it through - to achieve that we would have<br class="">to have map definitions in separate files. Separate files would work OK,<br class="">but would increase the number or size of files. At the time, we chose not<br class="">to go this way. Another time, I might choose differently. Bruce]<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Bruce <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Rob<br class=""><br class="">This is not a dataset, but it is an example of a file I have recently<br class="">started placing at the top level of a survey project folder, to remind me<br class="">and other users what conventions are used and preferred in a particular<br class="">project. It might, indirectly, help you think about some of the<br class="">considerations when starting a large project.<br class=""><br class="">See attached.<br class=""><br class="">Bruce<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""> _____ <br class=""><br class="">From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf<br class="">Of Rob Countess<br class="">Sent: Friday, 24 April 2015 7:58 a.m.<br class="">To: List for Therion users<br class="">Subject: Re: [Therion] Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Does anyone mind sending me one of your data sets. It would help me<br class="">understand the structure and organization.<br class=""><br class="">I have data for several cave areas on Vancouver Island BC Canada in Walls<br class="">and On Station. I want to convert the whole mess.<br class=""><br class="">My data sets are<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Glory 'ole/Arch Cave area<br class=""><br class=""> -18 km in 4 main caves and a dozen or so smaller caves linked by overland<br class="">survey and GPS<br class=""><br class=""> - longest caves are Arch (10.6 km km 3 entrances), Glory 'ole (2.7 km)<br class="">Pellucidar (1.9 km) Resonance (1.8 km)<br class=""><br class=""> - Arch cave is divided into several series based on streams and distinct<br class="">areas of the cave<br class=""><br class=""> - 3 caves (Glory 'ole, Resonance, and Arch) overlap in plan view (I want<br class="">to produce a high level map with all three caves in different colours,<br class="">initially just line plots but eventually real maps)<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">White Ridge<br class=""><br class="">-7 km in 3 main caves and a half dozen smaller caves Linked by radio<br class="">location and GPS<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Larch Mountain<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">2 km in 3 main caves and a dozen smaller caves linked by GPS<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">I also have a friend that manages data for Weymer Creek (over 30 km in over<br class="">100 caves, longest are 12 and 9 km lots of caves overlap in plan view). I am<br class="">trying to convince him to switch to Therion too.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">I am looking for an example data set that has<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">1) multiple caves in one caving area<br class=""><br class="">2) at least one cave large enough to be broken into series<br class=""><br class="">3) overlapping layers in at least one of the caves<br class=""><br class="">4) examples of files to produces different outputs with overlapping caves or<br class="">cave series in different colours on the same map.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Rob Countess<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">PS If you don't want to spam the mailing list then send to:<br class=""><br class="">rob.countess@gmail.com<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Therion mailing list<br class="">Therion@speleo.sk<br class="">http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-------------- next part --------------<br class="">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">URL: <http://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/attachments/20150427/e5e7d38a/attachment.htm><br class=""><br class="">------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Therion mailing list<br class="">Therion@speleo.sk<br class="">http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">End of Therion Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21<br class="">****************************************<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>