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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think ‘centerline by centerline’
is best, as this how the input statistics are grouped when entered anyway.
In cases where a centerline crosses a major boundary in a cave, users can
easily break the centerline into two. It will result in less ‘holes’
in the reported statistics than ‘leg by leg’.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Does this increase the need for a bit more
‘input echo’ in the outputs?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maybe a listing of user selected maps and
surveys;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>in
therion.log (and in .xtherion.dat for highlighting in xtherion),<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>in the ‘keywords
property’ of pdf outputs,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>as a
header in list outputs and header option in pdf outputs?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>On the topic of input echos…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There were some discussion 18 months ago
about adding output co-ordinate system, north type and rotation echos to
headers. I think this is still pending.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tasks #9006 #9011 #9583 on the savannah
page have a similar flavour…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>(Sounds like another whole project)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bruce<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Stacho Mudrak<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 18 November 2010
11:19 p.m.<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> List for Therion users<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Therion] FW: Source
and Select</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Currently it is done on
the "centerline" by "centerline" basis :) I.e. for a
selected map, it collects all centerline objects, where map stations are
surveyed and groups teams, lengths and depths.<br>
<br>
But I like your idea, to add there also data from selected surveys and maps
from other projections. This would be more or less backward compatible but it
will definitely avoid confusions. I will try to do it like that.<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot, S.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 18 November 2010 09:24, Bruce wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Thanks for exploring this idea Stacho.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>After I posted I realized that each projection is independent and
if we let it, it would create a lot more permutations and make any changed
behaviour much more complicated for the user to understand or manage than the
present behaviour. To be avoided.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I guess we are talking about making the statistics consistent
across the outputs –length, depth, surveyors, explorers etc.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>If I understand properly, your first option – specify a map
for each projection to go with a selected survey. So if you select this
survey, means you will get this particular map or atlas, and the statistics for
the survey will be reported with all outputs exported with that thconfig
run. I think this is flawed because each survey could have a number of
plan projection maps (although unlikely because Therion is good at allowing
‘many maps from one drawing’) but each plan map is only likely to
have one survey network. (I’m assuming re-survey projects will probably
create new maps to go with the new survey network).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Your second option seems workable. Each map
‘knows’ which survey legs it is connected to. To some extent
this must already happen. I’ve drawn a diagram to help me
understand to relationships between selectable objects, exports and data
flows. I may ponder on it some more before distributing…</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Could it be like this:-</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Therion collects statistics from explicitly selected surveys (if
any) and all selected maps over all projections, and (temporarily) stores a collection
of the aggregated statistics (length, depth, surveyors, explorers etc) and then
these are reported consistently across all exported outputs for this thconfig
run?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I suspect most beginner to intermediate users would not notice any
difference from the current situation, indeed this behaviour might be what they
expect anyway.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I think most of the existing default behaviours of
‘select’ could (and should) remain the same.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Would the survey statistics extracted by selected maps be done on a
‘leg by leg’ basis or a ‘survey by survey’ basis?
I am assuming ‘leg by leg’. There is a danger that the map
might miss some legs where passage direction is complicated and scraps
join. Similarly the reason for using aggregated statistics across
projections, is that I expect that often some parts of surveys are not drawn in
some projections. Eg a system that includes a large shaft system may not
have complete plan drawings for the whole 300m depth of a multi pitch shaft,
much as projected elevations do not have complete drawings for those passages
the travel ‘into’ or ‘out of’ the page.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>To avoid missing any legs, the user could explicitly select a
survey at an appropriate level as well.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>The alternative of ‘survey by survey’ could result in
over reporting of statistics for many maps, where the component surveys extend
beyond the drawn maps.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Congratulations for getting this far!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Bruce</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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