[Therion] Gradient out of range - does not process
Andrew Atkinson
andrew at wotcc.org.uk
Mon Dec 14 20:51:28 CET 2020
Those fixed positions would need to be calculated, by something. Errors do occur which are better distributed about the loops. Most none surveying software doesn't really do this. There is a data type that is for theodolite, however it is for a data type where all distances are horizontal, which appears to be for really old theodolites.
Theodolites are not really set up for doing traverses, for a loop of a few hundred metres we have an mis-closure of about 1m. I would be disappointed if I was using a disto X. It seems to be par for the course. The show cave owners paid for a traverse when they where tunnelling. They claimed millimetre accuracy however were metres out. Lead to a bit of an arguement between the caver surveyors and the paid surveyors about Which direction to dig the tunnel. It was resolved when the tunnel broke through. Luckily the tunnelers listen to the cavers. đ
Andrew
On 14 December 2020 18:47:11 GMT, Martin Sluka via Therion <therion at speleo.sk> wrote:
>Nor Survex, nor Therion support theodolite, as I know. Isnât better to
>input such measurements as fix points?
>
>Martin
>
>OdeslĂĄno z iPhonu
>
>14. 12. 2020 v 19:09, Stacho Mudrak <lists at group-s.sk>:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> could you please try the latest commit? I do not think that even a
>warning for 270 (=-90) to 360 (=level) degrees clino is necessary. An
>error can occur if you manually type a comma in the wrong place, but
>the same may happen with compass & tape and there is no warning.
>>
>> S.
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 09:43, Andrew Atkinson <andrew at wotcc.org.uk>
>wrote:
>>> We have now used 3 different 'Total stations' all by different
>manufacturers
>>>
>>> All seem to give a choice between
>>>
>>> 270 as down 0 as level and 90 as up
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> 0 as down 90 as level and 180 as up
>>>
>>> None of them have given the choice for negative clino (all the
>machines
>>> we have use are old, but digital.
>>>
>>> So it does seem normal for theodolites!
>>>
>>> With hindsight I should have chosen the latter,then I could have
>just
>>> calibrated with a calibrate clino 90
>>>
>>> But it was difficult to get your head round, plus I was using
>pockettopo
>>> (and sexytopo) to draw the survey in the cave, so it was easier to
>use
>>> the 270 as down version
>>>
>>> It would be really useful to be able in a centreline-endcentreline
>nest
>>> to be able to suppress the out of range error and use the 270 to 360
>>> readings, but still have the error/warning for the more normal
>surveys
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On 14/12/2020 08:24, Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>>> > Are you sure those data are ânormalâ?
>>> >
>>> > Martin
>>> >
>>> > OdeslĂĄno z iPhonu
>>> >
>>> > 14. 12. 2020 v 1:10, alastair gott <alastairgott at hotmail.com>:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Andrew, if you can get deg,mins,secs to work in survex then
>you can use the .3d file with the surveys use command. (But I think
>from your careful wording, you already know this).
>>> >>
>>> >> import use.3d -surveys use
>>> >>
>>> >> Not ideal afaik for âmixing local and global coordinatesâ so
>tricky if your going for a kml output if you have to use with mixed .3d
>and normal .th files.
>>> >>
>>> >> It would be good if you could select a lookup file for the Clino,
>then you could easily create a translation file in excel and save that
>as a .th for your total station .th file to lookup to. But no idea if
>this is feasible or even an idea at all.
>>> >>
>>> >> Al.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 13 Dec 2020, at 18:15, Andrew Atkinson <andrew at wotcc.org.uk>
>wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hello
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I thought that there was a way I could stop the out of range
>error, but
>>> >>> I cannot now find it. It would be an a useful command to have as
>instead
>>> >>> of negative readings we got readings between 270 and 359, which
>although
>>> >>> strange is valid. In survex readings over 90 are just a warning,
>which
>>> >>> seems far more sensible, the problem is that I don't think that
>I can
>>> >>> enter the data in survex either without conversion as I don't
>think that
>>> >>> degrees minutes and seconds can be entered.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So I'm stuck with data that I have to convert, for different
>reasons
>>> >>> depending on whether I use survex of therion.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Here is part of the file, I have quiet a few
>>> >>>
>>> >>> survey
>>> >>>
>>> >>> centreline
>>> >>> data normal from to clino compass tape ignoreall
>>> >>> 1 2 1:08:25 83:37:40 17.88
>>> >>> 2 3 00:00:00 -:-:- 0.055
>>> >>> 3 - 02:39:00 266:49:00 3.206
>>> >>> 3 - 314:28:20 299:57:45 2.02
>>> >>> 3 - 16:32:25 312:13:20 1.246
>>> >>> 3 - 06:22:35 84:16:10 1.17
>>> >>> 3 - 309:16:45 84:15:50 1.846
>>> >>> 3 - 55:00:10 122:44:50 0.77
>>> >>> 3 - 325:02:55 249:55:45 1.014
>>> >>> 3 5 359:30:50 338:07:25 16.674
>>> >>> 5 - 306:52:00 262:23:20 1.402
>>> >>> 5 - 59:29:30 343:51:30 1.076
>>> >>> 5 - 305:08:25 358:34:30 1.274
>>> >>> 5 - 315:26:20 90:51:35 1.632
>>> >>> 5 - 29:12:45 77:01:35 1.891
>>> >>> 5 - 19:55:50 33:02:00 3.071
>>> >>> 5 - 348:22:35 31:08:25 3.707
>>> >>> 5 - 350:35:20 15:31:25 4.292
>>> >>> 5 - 13:29:35 15:31:20 4.202
>>> >>> 5 - 12:24:50 30:20:20 7.919
>>> >>> 5 6 17:29:05 31:28:50 6.444
>>> >>> 6 - 307:24:35 149:47:35 1.738
>>> >>> 6 - 344:44:40 149:45:30 1.426
>>> >>> 6 - 77:05:35 149:36:05 1.523
>>> >>> 6 - 306:05:00 314:12:10 0.84
>>> >>> 6 - 353:47:50 94:54:35 2.091
>>> >>> 6 - 00:42:00 219:31:40 5.446
>>> >>> 6 - 18:33:50 230:03:05 4.468
>>> >>> 6 7 12:26:05 241:13:00 4.272
>>> >>>
>>> >>> .....etc
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Anyone got a solution that does not mean I have to convert in a
>spreadsheet?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> thanks
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Andrew
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Therion mailing list
>>> >>> Therion at speleo.sk
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Andrew
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