[Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text

Bruce bruce at tomo.co.nz
Sun Nov 27 10:02:09 CET 2011


Feels like a long time ago, although I have not resolved the issues I was
having.  Keep finding too much new cave.


So my quick initial thoughts only for now, preceded by a longer than
intended dissertation on how I think various station and leg properties


We may have had a slight difference in understanding of the terminology and


Station properties

In my old posts that you copied into your message, I was thinking of 'fixed'
stations as a station that is located by giving it coordinates with the fix
statement (from within in a survey, not scrap), like this;


    fix 804 2503213 6020327  649 4 4 12

            station 804 "hole beside track, rocks rumble down" entrance \

             continuation attr who "Oz, Deb, Greg" attr what pit attr
priority medium attr ref centreline2011.02.19 \

             not explored   

In the context in which my original question was asked, such points do not
usually have survey shots attached to them as usually they are features in a
karst area, not caves, but some do.  Obviously these are unlikely to be
underground stations (but they might be sometimes, say by radio location).
Knowledge about their coordinates usually comes from a gps.  From Therions
perspective their locations are 'fixed' in space (with a bit of fuzzyness if
you add the standard deviations as I have above).

Stations that are not fixed in this manner depend on the calculation of the
survey network to determine their location in space.


By fixed, you are referring in your post generally to stations in the cave
that have some means of future identification (a label, a cairn, a drill


The 'mark' statement sets these characteristics of the station(s) -ie is it
fixed or painted, or is it temporary (ephemeral, no one can find it for sure
10 minutes later).


'Mark' can be a stand alone statement or it can specify the particular
stations it applies to.

Eg Near the start of all my surveys I include;


   mark temporary   #makes sure the default is explicitly set for all the
stations in the survey legs that follow.


and then at the end of all the shots I include something like;


    mark 1 27 32 48 57 72 fixed


This ensures it is always very easy to grab a list of all the 'mark fixed'
stations, because they are defined in one place (for each individual


Stations can also have 'flags', and they are set using;


station <stn> "some words that appear in Loch and I wish could be made to
appear in pdfs selectively" <none, one or more flags>

Station flags can be entrance, continuation, sink, dig, air-draught etc


As I have described above, these are all how you would define them in a
centerline (ie part of a survey, not part of a map object).

Alternatively in scrap drawings you can override the 'mark' specified for a
station in the centerline.  Perhaps confusingly, it is called '-subtype' and
not '-mark'.  (An opportunity for a future feature, synonym option for
station -mark = -subtype)

The mark properties described above are the properties that the symbol-show
points that you have enumerated in your post refer to.


I don't think you can specify the continuation flag to stations from within
scraps.  You can however use points independent of stations;


point continuation .with similar syntax to what you would use for the
stations (as in example above) with flag continuation set.

See http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=drawingchecklist#points and
look for 'continuation'.


Survey leg properties

'Flags' also sets characteristics of the survey leg(s) but the allowable
flags are different to those used for stations-ie Are they surface,
approximate, duplicate, splay?


'Flags' for shots can be set up in a survey as a stand alone statement, and
all stations and legs defined below will inherit those characteristics.

So quite often it will be like this;


data normal etc

flags surface

<some surface shots>

flags not surface

<underground shots>


I don't think these can be set or modified in the scraps.


So the above does not solve your problem nor mine, but it should make
clearer the differences and similarities about what we are each trying to
achieve.  While we are wanting to isolate or identify different types of
station property (you the mark, me the fixity in space) I think the solution
to both these will be the same - better control of point symbol display and
any associated text.


The method you have used to isolate the 'mark fixed' and continuations seems
overly complicated, but I guess it could be an interim workaround to gaining
better control of how the stations are displayed in pdfs generally.


As far as continuations go, I just use the metapost   def
p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) = ...etc and then change nothing else,
the continuation text is added to the map with all the other detail and
labels.  If I wanted to hide all passage detail to emphasize the
continuations as you have done,  I would;


 symbol-hide group all
 symbol-show line wall # to display the cave itself
 symbol-show point flag:continuation


(or better, see LayoutScale10000 and LayoutScale10000 in the
layoutscales.txt file at
http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=templates#general_setup to get a
better description of the control you can get)

This way you could probably get exactly the same effect as in the example
you posted, but not have to make a Map_Continuations . Should be easier just
to use a layout.


The scrap -stations option you highlighted looks like one I've missed.
Thanks, I'll think about whether that can help me!




From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Ben Cooper
Sent: Sunday, 27 November 2011 11:55 a.m.
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points / point text


Bruce, Andrew, et al,

I noticed your posts from February about this topic, which I also happen to
be struggling with at the moment.  I'm trying to produce two maps, one
showing fixed survey stations and another showing continuations.


In particular, I'm a bit confused about the subtle difference between the
'mark', 'flags', and 'station' commands in centreline, and the various point
commands in scrap.  How are these related in metapost, and how can I
distinguish between them in selecting what is displayed?  As with Bruce's
"concrete water trough" below, I'd rather not have to use the "continuation"
flag just to get the text to display.  Any suggestions?


I have made some progress by using the "continuation" flag for both my
needs, but it's not ideal, and I had trouble getting it to work.  


I'm currently using the 

  mark <station> fixed and 

  station <station> "text" continuation 

in the centreline, but it also seems to work for the point continuation in
the scrap. 


In the thconfig layout I've used:

 symbol-hide group all
 symbol-show line wall # seems to be needed to force display of the cave
 symbol-show point station:painted
 symbol-show point station:fixed
 symbol-show point station:natural
 symbol-show point flag:continuation


To display the text I've then used, as per thbook.  

code metapost

  def p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) = ...etc


I'd like to be able to use a different symbol to the question mark for my
fixed stations, but I don't know how to do that.


To get the points to display, I found I had to use the -stations option in
the 'scrap' command, even if the scrap included the station already!  I'm
not sure why this is so, but it works.  It also gave me an idea to create an
"overlay" scrap, that includes nothing other than the -stations option (plus
a couple of point stations to calibrate the scale and avoid the "scrap too
large" error).  I've got two such scrap files, one called "fixed" and the
other called "continuations", and it seems to be working.  

In my source file, I've added two map definitions 


   map Map_mFixedStations 
     preview below UF_m1


   map Map_Continuations 
     preview below UF_m1

where UF_m1 is the master map of the whole cave, UF_mFixed is a map
containing the Fixed point scrap, and UF_mContinuations is the map
containing the Continuations scrap.  It might be that because of the preview
below, I no longer need symbol-hide all, but I haven't tried that yet.  


In this way I can select the various different points to show in each
overlay.  The limitation is that I can't have a station that is both a fixed
station and a continuation; and I have to manually search my whole cave
survey to manually identify all of the fixed points and list them in the
scrap.  It would be nicer to have Therion display these automatically using


The attached shows my "proof of concept" output (it's a bit rough and still
incomplete) and I've currently turned off the text output because my points
are too close together at this scale (1:4000) and the texts collide.  The
fixed stations without the question mark have no "stations" command and no



- Ben


From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Bruce
Sent: 10 February 2011 19:28
To: 'List for Therion users'
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points

Thanks Stacho

I think you are pointing me in the direction of answering my second
question; redefinition of each type of point that I might be interested in.
ie p_sink, p_doline, p_entrance.  

(Admittedly I have not delved into the code to see how it currently works,
and I should perhaps educate myself some more before asking.)


Some of my points would have all three (or more) flags set (sink, doline,
entrance).  Are they just layered one above the other in the output? So
there may be three copies of the (identical) text layered one above the
other if each definition included printing of the text?  When I have time I
can look into the TMPDIR outputs and perhaps figure it out.


Anyway I digress.  My most pressing need and interest is (the first question
in my original post) adding the text output to fixed points that do not have
any other flags set.  The ones that show up in Loch as red circles that do
not have doline or other flag set, but do not show up with labels included
in the pdf output.  Is there a p_fixed?





From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Stacho Mudrak
Sent: Thursday, 10 February 2011 10:48 p.m.
To: List for Therion users
Subject: Re: [Therion] symbol-show fixed points


Well, it is quite complicated, but it is possible. When point symbol is
exported from centerline, system _text attribute is set in metapost. To
dipsplay label, use code 

code metapost

  def p_continuation(expr pos,theta,sc,al) =


shown in:


But you will need to redefine corresponding symbol (e.g. p_sink). In that
code, you can also control, whether symbol and/or text should be displayed.
Feel free to ask more, if this does not help you.

Regards, S.

On 7 February 2011 21:10, Bruce <dangle at tomo.co.nz> wrote:

Hi All

I've been trying to understand symbol-show and symbol-hide a little better
as they relate to pdf outputs.  How do I display the text associated with
fixed points?

 I have some map objects defined for various caves in a large system.  These
are comprised of scrap drawings.

  I also have a map object with the minor surface features nearby, such as
sinks, dolines, isolated entrances and significant navigational features
such as fence posts or trees (for example). This is comprised of a survey
only (mostly fixed points, and no scrap drawings) however and uses flags
such as doline or sink, and most points have a text string associated ie.

 fix 15 2521640   6042938            581       10 10 30 

station 15 "Concrete water trough"

 I would like to show the caves as outlines with all the rest of their
symbology turned off, and the surface features with each of the points
labelled with appropriate symbol and associated text.  This is for an area
map, at scales of say 1:5000 or 1:10,000

I can turn the cave symbols off with symbol-hide statements, and so far I
think that is working out OK.


             -layout-symbol-show point flag:entrance \

            -layout-symbol-show point flag:sink \       

            -layout-symbol-show point flag:spring \     

            -layout-symbol-show point flag:doline \     

            -layout-symbol-show point flag:dig \         

The above layout statements cause the special entrance and sink etc symbols
to be displayed, AND show the text string associated with the point.  These
are not displayed by default as far as I can tell, but these statements
rectify that.

        -layout-symbol-show group all

And the group all statement has pretty much the same effect in a more
comprehensive and compact format.

 However none of the above enables me to display the text for my "Concrete
water trough" example above.

It is always just a cross with no text, or with '15' if debug station-names
is on.  It shows up in Loch, but not in pdfs.

 So, how do I display the text associated with fixed points?

Is there a need for.

            -layout-symbol-show point fixed 

. or something similar?

 Also, sometimes I would like to display the point symbols (for the likes of
the above flags) OR the text strings associated with the points, but not
both at once.  Is there a way of doing this? 







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