[Therion] FW: Source and Select

Wed Nov 17 22:55:55 CET 2010

Stacho, are you not able to generate "virtual" survey just from the  
stations included in selected maps?

Any link between maps and surveys could be quite dangerous, because  
one maps could be part of for example three surveys or only very small  
part of survey.

m.

On 17.11.2010, at 22:39, Stacho Mudrak wrote:

> Well, as you have noticed, map selection and survey selection are  
> completely independent - even map selections are independent between  
> projections. With exception of maps, everywhere else survey  
> selection is used.
>
> Do you have some idea, how to solve this discrepancy? Normally, just  
> survey selection could be enough. But then there need to be  
> specified the map - that need to be shown, when this survey is  
> selected (link survey - map). But then you will loose a possibility  
> to export all scraps from given survey if some of them will not be  
> included in that map.
>
> Or the other way - discrepancy between lengths in 2D and 3D could be  
> solved by adding a link from map to survey. Which way would you  
> prefer? For me, probably the second one is better. If there will be  
> link from map to survey - than this survey could be selected, when a  
> map is selected and length/depth from this survey could be taken  
> into account.
>
> Best regards, S.
>
> On 17 November 2010 09:26, Bruce <dangle at tomo.co.nz> wrote:
>
> OK, I tried it.
> Selected a map containing a few caves, and a single survey, a small  
> part of
> one of those caves in one of my datasets.  The 2d pdf map produced a  
> cave
> and reported 12km and the lists and 3d model in the same thconfig run
> reported a single survey of 45m.
>
> I see now it has always been this way, but was not what I had  
> assumed for
> all these years. (One can never read the Therion book too carefully).
>
> It also explains the discrepancy in reported cave lengths between 2d  
> pdf
> maps and the list outputs.  If there are no scraps for a short  
> length of
> survey, then the 2d pdf map does not report that portion of the cave  
> length.
>
> This means that, assuming the surveys and maps are decoupled as is  
> one of
> the supposed advantages of Therion (and I agree it is), it is  
> therefore NOT
> usually possible to get a comprehensive set of outputs (2d pdfs, 3d  
> models,
> lists of caves, continuations and surveys) that relate to a particular
> discrete SUBset of data (It is however possible to get these for the  
> ENTIRE
> dataset at any level, but if the global effect of loop closures is  
> to be
> accounted for at a lower level the outputs are unlikely to represent a
> consistent portion of the cave-unless map objects and surveys join  
> at the
> same places).
>
> I agree Andrew, it would be good to select a map object and have all  
> types
> of output refer to drawings and centrelines contained in that map  
> object.
> It is the behaviour I was incorrectly assuming, and the inevitable
> discrepancies I had been putting down to bugs either in Therion or my
> haphazard data organisation.
> The reverse currently happens when a survey is selected I think. Ie  
> all
> scraps are exported for selected surveys.  This does not allow passage
> previews and offsets though.
>
> Martin, Stacho,
> Should/could Therion produce such synchronised outputs where maps are
> selected, or should the users have to make the boundaries of their map
> objects match survey junctions at key locations to enable them to get
> consistency between map based outputs and survey based outputs?  The  
> later,
> status quo, is workable, but seems to make it difficult for the user  
> and
> make interpretation of output statistics quite onerous.
>
> So if I were to suggest a specific change it would be that when maps  
> are
> selected, only data relating to survey legs contained within  
> selected maps
> would be exported.
>
> Or am I missing something?
> Comments?
>
> Regards
> Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk]  
> On Behalf
> Of Andrew Atkinson
> Sent: Wednesday, 17 November 2010 6:56 a.m.
>
> Your suggested solution, is what I do, for 3d, and it works, but I  
> have
> not used lists yet. However, it would be nice to be able to select a  
> map
> and only get a centreline with this would be good, but I suspect too
> much work for it to be worth while. (plus lots of decisions about what
> exactly would appear in the output
>
> Andrew
>
> On 16/11/10 09:08, Bruce wrote:
> > My reading of the Therion Book suggests to me;
> >
> > - that 'source' specifies the files that Therion should read and  
> process
> > before deciding what to export. The source files should contain or
> > reference surveys and or a surface.
> >
> > - that 'select' chooses which survey(s) and or map(s) from the above
> > files to export. If there is no 'select' statement then 'all' are
> exported.
> >
> > My interpretation #1 is that this should allow all the surveys of a
> > large (or modest) system of cave passages to be referenced by way of
> > 'source' so that all the survey loop and scrap join distortions  
> can be
> > processed BEFORE Therion decides what to export. This is what  
> seems to
> > occur. So far, so good.
> >
> > My interpretation #2 is that when a map or maps for any particular
> > projection is 'selected' then ONLY the data that relates to those  
> maps
> > should be exported. This is what seems to happen for Map outputs  
> (pdf
> > and ?kml) and Atlas outputs.
> >
> > I have some difficulty and confusion with outputs that don't have a
> > projection, such as the lists, 3d outputs and database. What seems  
> to
> > happen is that regardless of the 'selected' maps, all of the  
> 'sourced'
> > data is exported to this type of output.
> >
> > What I would like is that only the data related to the 'selected'  
> maps
> > are exported. This way all subset outputs can be consistent (same  
> loop
> > closure distortions applied), and separately exported.
> >
> > In writing this out I suspect I may have realised the answer to my
> > question (but not yet tested it). Perhaps what I need to do is  
> 'select'
> > survey(s) that encompass the same part of the cave as the maps?
> >
> > Any insights or clarifications gratefully received.
> >
> > Bruce
>
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