[Therion] FW: Source and Select

[Bruce]

OK, I tried it.
Selected a map containing a few caves, and a single survey, a small part of
one of those caves in one of my datasets.  The 2d pdf map produced a cave
and reported 12km and the lists and 3d model in the same thconfig run
reported a single survey of 45m.

I see now it has always been this way, but was not what I had assumed for
all these years. (One can never read the Therion book too carefully).

It also explains the discrepancy in reported cave lengths between 2d pdf
maps and the list outputs.  If there are no scraps for a short length of
survey, then the 2d pdf map does not report that portion of the cave length.

This means that, assuming the surveys and maps are decoupled as is one of
the supposed advantages of Therion (and I agree it is), it is therefore NOT
usually possible to get a comprehensive set of outputs (2d pdfs, 3d models,
lists of caves, continuations and surveys) that relate to a particular
discrete SUBset of data (It is however possible to get these for the ENTIRE
dataset at any level, but if the global effect of loop closures is to be
accounted for at a lower level the outputs are unlikely to represent a
consistent portion of the cave-unless map objects and surveys join at the
same places).

I agree Andrew, it would be good to select a map object and have all types
of output refer to drawings and centrelines contained in that map object.
It is the behaviour I was incorrectly assuming, and the inevitable
discrepancies I had been putting down to bugs either in Therion or my
haphazard data organisation.
The reverse currently happens when a survey is selected I think. Ie all
scraps are exported for selected surveys.  This does not allow passage
previews and offsets though.

Martin, Stacho, 
Should/could Therion produce such synchronised outputs where maps are
selected, or should the users have to make the boundaries of their map
objects match survey junctions at key locations to enable them to get
consistency between map based outputs and survey based outputs?  The later,
status quo, is workable, but seems to make it difficult for the user and
make interpretation of output statistics quite onerous.

So if I were to suggest a specific change it would be that when maps are
selected, only data relating to survey legs contained within selected maps
would be exported.

Or am I missing something?
Comments?

Regards
Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: therion-bounces at speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces at speleo.sk] On Behalf
Of Andrew Atkinson
Sent: Wednesday, 17 November 2010 6:56 a.m.

Your suggested solution, is what I do, for 3d, and it works, but I have 
not used lists yet. However, it would be nice to be able to select a map 
and only get a centreline with this would be good, but I suspect too 
much work for it to be worth while. (plus lots of decisions about what 
exactly would appear in the output

Andrew

On 16/11/10 09:08, Bruce wrote:
> My reading of the Therion Book suggests to me;
>
> - that 'source' specifies the files that Therion should read and process
> before deciding what to export. The source files should contain or
> reference surveys and or a surface.
>
> - that 'select' chooses which survey(s) and or map(s) from the above
> files to export. If there is no 'select' statement then 'all' are
exported.
>
> My interpretation #1 is that this should allow all the surveys of a
> large (or modest) system of cave passages to be referenced by way of
> 'source' so that all the survey loop and scrap join distortions can be
> processed BEFORE Therion decides what to export. This is what seems to
> occur. So far, so good.
>
> My interpretation #2 is that when a map or maps for any particular
> projection is 'selected' then ONLY the data that relates to those maps
> should be exported. This is what seems to happen for Map outputs (pdf
> and ?kml) and Atlas outputs.
>
> I have some difficulty and confusion with outputs that don't have a
> projection, such as the lists, 3d outputs and database. What seems to
> happen is that regardless of the 'selected' maps, all of the 'sourced'
> data is exported to this type of output.
>
> What I would like is that only the data related to the 'selected' maps
> are exported. This way all subset outputs can be consistent (same loop
> closure distortions applied), and separately exported.
>
> In writing this out I suspect I may have realised the answer to my
> question (but not yet tested it). Perhaps what I need to do is 'select'
> survey(s) that encompass the same part of the cave as the maps?
>
> Any insights or clarifications gratefully received.
>
> Bruce